1 00:00:02,097 --> 00:00:06,569 The murder happened a little over 21 years ago, 2 00:00:06,569 --> 00:00:10,848 January the 18th, 1991, 3 00:00:10,848 --> 00:00:13,109 in a small 4 00:00:13,109 --> 00:00:15,483 bedroom community 5 00:00:15,483 --> 00:00:18,318 of Lynwood, California, just a few miles 6 00:00:18,318 --> 00:00:20,816 southeast of Los Angeles. 7 00:00:20,816 --> 00:00:23,651 A father came out of his house 8 00:00:23,651 --> 00:00:27,058 to tell his teenage son and his five friends 9 00:00:27,058 --> 00:00:29,837 that it was time for them to stop horsing around 10 00:00:29,837 --> 00:00:32,747 on the front lawn and on the sidewalk, 11 00:00:32,747 --> 00:00:35,655 to get home, finish their schoolwork, 12 00:00:35,655 --> 00:00:38,401 and prepare themselves for bed. 13 00:00:38,401 --> 00:00:41,971 And as the father was administering these instructions, 14 00:00:41,971 --> 00:00:45,309 a car drove by, slowly, 15 00:00:45,309 --> 00:00:48,211 and just after it passed the father and the teenagers, 16 00:00:48,211 --> 00:00:52,199 a hand went out from the front passenger window, 17 00:00:52,199 --> 00:00:57,461 and -- "Bam, Bam!" -- killing the father. 18 00:00:57,461 --> 00:01:00,620 And the car sped off. 19 00:01:00,620 --> 00:01:02,461 The police, 20 00:01:02,461 --> 00:01:06,291 investigating officers, were amazingly efficient. 21 00:01:06,291 --> 00:01:08,721 They considered all the usual culprits, 22 00:01:08,721 --> 00:01:13,288 and in less than 24 hours, they had selected their suspect: 23 00:01:13,288 --> 00:01:16,866 Francisco Carrillo, a 17-year-old kid 24 00:01:16,866 --> 00:01:18,903 who lived about two or three blocks away 25 00:01:18,903 --> 00:01:21,638 from where the shooting occurred. 26 00:01:21,638 --> 00:01:26,286 They found photos of him. They prepared a photo array, 27 00:01:26,286 --> 00:01:29,870 and the day after the shooting, 28 00:01:29,870 --> 00:01:32,763 they showed it to one of the teenagers, and he said, 29 00:01:32,763 --> 00:01:35,082 "That's the picture. 30 00:01:35,082 --> 00:01:40,469 That's the shooter I saw that killed the father." 31 00:01:40,469 --> 00:01:43,046 That was all a preliminary hearing judge had 32 00:01:43,046 --> 00:01:48,155 to listen to, to bind Mr. Carrillo over to stand trial 33 00:01:48,155 --> 00:01:50,842 for a first-degree murder. 34 00:01:50,842 --> 00:01:54,049 In the investigation that followed before the actual trial, 35 00:01:54,049 --> 00:01:57,460 each of the other five teenagers was shown 36 00:01:57,460 --> 00:02:01,508 photographs, the same photo array. 37 00:02:01,508 --> 00:02:04,332 The picture that we best can determine was probably 38 00:02:04,332 --> 00:02:06,604 the one that they were shown in the photo array 39 00:02:06,604 --> 00:02:10,301 is in your bottom left hand corner of these mug shots. 40 00:02:10,301 --> 00:02:13,737 The reason we're not sure absolutely is because 41 00:02:13,737 --> 00:02:18,170 of the nature of evidence preservation 42 00:02:18,170 --> 00:02:20,454 in our judicial system, 43 00:02:20,454 --> 00:02:25,202 but that's another whole TEDx talk for later. (Laughter) 44 00:02:25,202 --> 00:02:28,108 So at the actual trial, 45 00:02:28,108 --> 00:02:31,108 all six of the teenagers testified, 46 00:02:31,108 --> 00:02:34,866 and indicated the identifications they had made 47 00:02:34,866 --> 00:02:38,342 in the photo array. 48 00:02:38,342 --> 00:02:43,123 He was convicted. He was sentenced to life imprisonment, 49 00:02:43,123 --> 00:02:48,582 and transported to Folsom Prison. 50 00:02:48,582 --> 00:02:50,671 So what's wrong? 51 00:02:50,671 --> 00:02:55,437 Straightforward, fair trial, full investigation. 52 00:02:55,437 --> 00:02:58,978 Oh yes, no gun was ever found. 53 00:02:58,978 --> 00:03:03,132 No vehicle was ever identified as being the one 54 00:03:03,132 --> 00:03:06,356 in which the shooter had extended his arm, 55 00:03:06,356 --> 00:03:09,641 and no person was ever charged with being the driver 56 00:03:09,641 --> 00:03:12,883 of the shooter's vehicle. 57 00:03:12,883 --> 00:03:16,764 And Mr. Carrillo's alibi? 58 00:03:16,764 --> 00:03:22,058 Which of those parents here in the room might not lie 59 00:03:22,058 --> 00:03:24,877 concerning the whereabouts of your son or daughter 60 00:03:24,877 --> 00:03:28,774 in an investigation of a killing? 61 00:03:30,874 --> 00:03:33,596 Sent to prison, 62 00:03:33,596 --> 00:03:37,094 adamantly insisting on his innocence, 63 00:03:37,094 --> 00:03:41,831 which he has consistently for 21 years. 64 00:03:41,831 --> 00:03:45,302 So what's the problem? 65 00:03:45,302 --> 00:03:48,026 The problems, actually, for this kind of case 66 00:03:48,026 --> 00:03:51,935 come manyfold from decades of scientific research 67 00:03:51,935 --> 00:03:55,837 involving human memory. 68 00:03:55,837 --> 00:03:58,651 First of all, we have all the statistical analyses 69 00:03:58,651 --> 00:04:00,858 from the Innocence Project work, 70 00:04:00,858 --> 00:04:03,555 where we know that we have, what, 71 00:04:03,555 --> 00:04:07,336 250, 280 documented cases now where people have 72 00:04:07,336 --> 00:04:11,408 been wrongfully convicted and subsequently exonerated, 73 00:04:11,408 --> 00:04:17,754 some from death row, on the basis of later DNA analysis, 74 00:04:17,754 --> 00:04:21,415 and you know that over three quarters of all of those cases 75 00:04:21,415 --> 00:04:27,686 of exoneration involved only eyewitness identification 76 00:04:27,686 --> 00:04:31,333 testimony during the trial that convicted them. 77 00:04:31,333 --> 00:04:36,508 We know that eyewitness identifications are fallible. 78 00:04:36,508 --> 00:04:38,728 The other comes from an interesting aspect 79 00:04:38,728 --> 00:04:41,931 of human memory that's related to various brain functions 80 00:04:41,931 --> 00:04:44,497 but I can sum up for the sake of brevity here 81 00:04:44,497 --> 00:04:46,881 in a simple line: 82 00:04:46,881 --> 00:04:51,629 The brain abhors a vacuum. 83 00:04:51,629 --> 00:04:55,539 Under the best of observation conditions, 84 00:04:55,539 --> 00:04:57,411 the absolute best, 85 00:04:57,411 --> 00:05:01,124 we only detect, encode and store in our brains 86 00:05:01,124 --> 00:05:04,819 bits and pieces of the entire experience in front of us, 87 00:05:04,819 --> 00:05:07,148 and they're stored in different parts of the brain. 88 00:05:07,148 --> 00:05:11,303 So now, when it's important for us to be able to recall 89 00:05:11,303 --> 00:05:14,324 what it was that we experienced, 90 00:05:14,324 --> 00:05:19,602 we have an incomplete, we have a partial store, 91 00:05:19,602 --> 00:05:22,055 and what happens? 92 00:05:22,055 --> 00:05:24,879 Below awareness, with no requirement for any kind of 93 00:05:24,879 --> 00:05:30,050 motivated processing, the brain fills in information 94 00:05:30,050 --> 00:05:32,475 that was not there, 95 00:05:32,475 --> 00:05:34,925 not originally stored, 96 00:05:34,925 --> 00:05:37,469 from inference, from speculation, 97 00:05:37,469 --> 00:05:40,281 from sources of information that came to you, 98 00:05:40,281 --> 00:05:43,416 as the observer, after the observation. 99 00:05:43,416 --> 00:05:45,490 But it happens without awareness such that 100 00:05:45,490 --> 00:05:49,124 you don't, aren't even cognizant of it occurring. 101 00:05:49,124 --> 00:05:51,391 It's called reconstructed memories. 102 00:05:51,391 --> 00:05:55,690 It happens to us in all the aspects of our life, all the time. 103 00:05:55,690 --> 00:05:58,954 It was those two considerations, among others -- 104 00:05:58,954 --> 00:06:03,459 reconstructed memory, the fact about the eyewitness fallibility -- 105 00:06:03,459 --> 00:06:06,515 that was part of the instigation 106 00:06:06,515 --> 00:06:08,964 for a group of appeal attorneys 107 00:06:08,964 --> 00:06:12,436 led by an amazing lawyer named Ellen Eggers 108 00:06:12,436 --> 00:06:16,564 to pool their experience and their talents together 109 00:06:16,564 --> 00:06:18,401 and petition a superior court 110 00:06:18,401 --> 00:06:23,471 for a retrial for Francisco Carrillo. 111 00:06:23,471 --> 00:06:27,859 They retained me, as a forensic neurophysiologist, 112 00:06:27,859 --> 00:06:30,001 because I had expertise 113 00:06:30,001 --> 00:06:32,121 in eyewitness memory identification, 114 00:06:32,121 --> 00:06:35,316 which obviously makes sense for this case, right? 115 00:06:35,316 --> 00:06:38,660 But also because I have expertise and testify about 116 00:06:38,660 --> 00:06:43,037 the nature of human night vision. 117 00:06:43,037 --> 00:06:46,070 Well, what's that got to do with this? 118 00:06:46,070 --> 00:06:49,372 Well, when you read through the case materials 119 00:06:49,372 --> 00:06:52,094 in this Carrillo case, 120 00:06:52,094 --> 00:06:54,924 one of the things that suddenly strikes you is that 121 00:06:54,924 --> 00:06:58,414 the investigating officers said the lighting was good 122 00:06:58,414 --> 00:07:01,948 at the crime scene, at the shooting. 123 00:07:01,948 --> 00:07:05,405 All the teenagers testified during the trial 124 00:07:05,405 --> 00:07:08,884 that they could see very well. 125 00:07:08,884 --> 00:07:11,724 But this occurred in mid-January, 126 00:07:11,724 --> 00:07:17,723 in the Northern Hemisphere, at 7 p.m. at night. 127 00:07:17,723 --> 00:07:20,748 So when I did the calculations 128 00:07:20,748 --> 00:07:22,960 for the lunar data and the solar data 129 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,139 at that location on Earth at the time of the incident 130 00:07:26,139 --> 00:07:28,187 of the shooting, all right, 131 00:07:28,187 --> 00:07:30,804 it was well past the end of civil twilight 132 00:07:30,804 --> 00:07:33,060 and there was no moon up that night. 133 00:07:33,060 --> 00:07:35,339 So all the light in this area from the sun and the moon 134 00:07:35,339 --> 00:07:37,923 is what you see on the screen right here. 135 00:07:37,923 --> 00:07:40,837 The only lighting in that area had to come 136 00:07:40,837 --> 00:07:44,107 from artificial sources, 137 00:07:44,107 --> 00:07:46,875 and that's where I go out and I do the actual reconstruction 138 00:07:46,875 --> 00:07:49,672 of the scene with photometers, with various measures 139 00:07:49,672 --> 00:07:51,646 of illumination and various other measures of 140 00:07:51,646 --> 00:07:56,113 color perception, along with special cameras 141 00:07:56,113 --> 00:07:58,242 and high-speed film, right? 142 00:07:58,242 --> 00:08:01,171 Take all the measurements and record them, right? 143 00:08:01,171 --> 00:08:03,328 And then take photographs, and this is what the scene 144 00:08:03,328 --> 00:08:04,763 looked like at the time of the shooting 145 00:08:04,763 --> 00:08:07,229 from the position of the teenagers 146 00:08:07,229 --> 00:08:11,051 looking at the car going by and shooting. 147 00:08:11,051 --> 00:08:13,356 This is looking directly across the street 148 00:08:13,356 --> 00:08:15,684 from where they were standing. 149 00:08:15,684 --> 00:08:18,037 Remember, the investigating officers' report said 150 00:08:18,037 --> 00:08:20,270 the lighting was good. 151 00:08:20,270 --> 00:08:22,704 The teenagers said they could see very well. 152 00:08:22,704 --> 00:08:25,955 This is looking down to the east, 153 00:08:25,955 --> 00:08:29,651 where the shooting vehicle sped off, 154 00:08:29,651 --> 00:08:34,543 and this is the lighting directly behind the father 155 00:08:34,543 --> 00:08:36,884 and the teenagers. 156 00:08:36,884 --> 00:08:40,795 As you can see, it is at best poor. 157 00:08:40,795 --> 00:08:44,668 No one's going to call this well-lit, good lighting, 158 00:08:44,668 --> 00:08:47,862 and in fact, as nice as these pictures are, 159 00:08:47,862 --> 00:08:51,323 and the reason we take them is I knew I was going to have to testify in court, 160 00:08:51,323 --> 00:08:54,515 and a picture is worth more than a thousand words 161 00:08:54,515 --> 00:08:56,915 when you're trying to communicate numbers, 162 00:08:56,915 --> 00:09:00,187 abstract concepts like lux, the international measurement 163 00:09:00,187 --> 00:09:05,363 of illumination, the Ishihara color perception test values. 164 00:09:05,363 --> 00:09:08,524 When you present those to people who are not well-versed 165 00:09:08,524 --> 00:09:11,640 in those aspects of science and that, they become 166 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,019 salamanders in the noonday sun. It's like 167 00:09:14,019 --> 00:09:16,933 talking about the tangent of the visual angle, all right? 168 00:09:16,933 --> 00:09:19,718 Their eyes just glaze over, all right? 169 00:09:19,718 --> 00:09:24,077 A good forensic expert also has to be a good educator, 170 00:09:24,077 --> 00:09:26,236 a good communicator, and that's part of the reason 171 00:09:26,236 --> 00:09:28,531 why we take the pictures, to show not only 172 00:09:28,531 --> 00:09:31,331 where the light sources are, and what we call the spill, 173 00:09:31,331 --> 00:09:33,960 the distribution, but also so that it's easier 174 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,995 for the trier of fact to understand the circumstances. 175 00:09:37,995 --> 00:09:40,868 So these are some of the pictures that, in fact, 176 00:09:40,868 --> 00:09:43,283 I used when I testified, 177 00:09:43,283 --> 00:09:45,148 but more importantly were, to me as a scientist, 178 00:09:45,148 --> 00:09:47,131 are those readings, the photometer readings, 179 00:09:47,131 --> 00:09:51,731 which I can then convert into actual predictions 180 00:09:51,731 --> 00:09:55,251 of the visual capability of the human eye 181 00:09:55,251 --> 00:09:57,627 under those circumstances, 182 00:09:57,627 --> 00:10:01,275 and from my readings that I recorded at the scene 183 00:10:01,275 --> 00:10:03,515 under the same solar and lunar conditions 184 00:10:03,515 --> 00:10:06,507 at the same time, so on and so forth, right, 185 00:10:06,507 --> 00:10:07,913 I could predict 186 00:10:07,913 --> 00:10:10,105 that there would be no reliable color perception, 187 00:10:10,105 --> 00:10:12,419 which is crucial for face recognition, 188 00:10:12,419 --> 00:10:14,731 and that there would be only scotopic vision, 189 00:10:14,731 --> 00:10:16,691 which means there would be very little resolution, 190 00:10:16,691 --> 00:10:18,939 what we call boundary or edge detection, 191 00:10:18,939 --> 00:10:21,254 and that furthermore, because the eyes would have been 192 00:10:21,254 --> 00:10:25,059 totally dilated under this light, the depth of field, 193 00:10:25,059 --> 00:10:28,217 the distance at which you can focus and see details, 194 00:10:28,217 --> 00:10:33,611 would have been less than 18 inches away. 195 00:10:33,611 --> 00:10:36,115 I testified to that to the court, 196 00:10:36,115 --> 00:10:38,548 and while the judge was very attentive, 197 00:10:38,548 --> 00:10:41,155 it had been a very, very long hearing 198 00:10:41,155 --> 00:10:45,899 for this petition for a retrial, and as a result, 199 00:10:45,899 --> 00:10:47,659 I noticed out of the corner of my eye 200 00:10:47,659 --> 00:10:51,804 that I thought that maybe the judge was going to need 201 00:10:51,804 --> 00:10:53,867 a little more of a nudge 202 00:10:53,867 --> 00:10:56,375 than just more numbers. 203 00:10:56,375 --> 00:10:58,667 And here I became a bit audacious, 204 00:10:58,667 --> 00:11:00,187 and I turned 205 00:11:00,187 --> 00:11:02,579 and I asked the judge, 206 00:11:02,579 --> 00:11:04,987 I said, "Your Honor, I think you should go out 207 00:11:04,987 --> 00:11:07,691 and look at the scene yourself." 208 00:11:07,691 --> 00:11:10,832 Now I may have used a tone which was more like a dare 209 00:11:10,832 --> 00:11:13,236 than a request — (Laughter) — 210 00:11:13,236 --> 00:11:17,683 but nonetheless, it's to this man's credit and his courage 211 00:11:17,683 --> 00:11:21,299 that he said, "Yes, I will." 212 00:11:21,299 --> 00:11:25,291 A shocker in American jurisprudence. 213 00:11:25,291 --> 00:11:27,763 So in fact, we found the same identical conditions, 214 00:11:27,763 --> 00:11:29,804 we reconstructed the entire thing again, 215 00:11:29,804 --> 00:11:33,814 he came out with an entire brigade of sheriff's officers 216 00:11:33,814 --> 00:11:38,971 to protect him in this community, all right? (Laughter) 217 00:11:38,971 --> 00:11:44,025 We had him stand actually slightly in the street, 218 00:11:44,025 --> 00:11:47,205 so closer to the suspect vehicle, the shooter vehicle, 219 00:11:47,205 --> 00:11:49,947 than the actual teenagers were, 220 00:11:49,947 --> 00:11:52,171 so he stood a few feet from the curb 221 00:11:52,171 --> 00:11:54,783 toward the middle of the street. 222 00:11:54,783 --> 00:11:57,700 We had a car that came by, 223 00:11:57,700 --> 00:12:02,651 same identical car as described by the teenagers, right? 224 00:12:02,651 --> 00:12:04,588 It had a driver and a passenger, 225 00:12:04,588 --> 00:12:08,411 and after the car had passed the judge by, 226 00:12:08,411 --> 00:12:11,925 the passenger extended his hand, 227 00:12:11,925 --> 00:12:16,499 pointed it back to the judge as the car continued on, 228 00:12:16,499 --> 00:12:18,718 just as the teenagers had described it, right? 229 00:12:18,718 --> 00:12:21,571 Now, he didn't use a real gun in his hand, 230 00:12:21,571 --> 00:12:23,989 so he had a black object in his hand that was similar 231 00:12:23,989 --> 00:12:25,968 to the gun that was described. 232 00:12:25,968 --> 00:12:28,814 He pointed by, and this is what the judge saw. 233 00:12:28,814 --> 00:12:35,913 This is the car 30 feet away from the judge. 234 00:12:35,913 --> 00:12:38,825 There's an arm sticking out of the passenger side 235 00:12:38,825 --> 00:12:41,198 and pointed back at you. 236 00:12:41,198 --> 00:12:43,163 That's 30 feet away. 237 00:12:43,163 --> 00:12:45,355 Some of the teenagers said that in fact the car 238 00:12:45,355 --> 00:12:47,931 was 15 feet away when it shot. 239 00:12:47,931 --> 00:12:51,595 Okay. There's 15 feet. 240 00:12:51,595 --> 00:12:55,765 At this point, I became a little concerned. 241 00:12:55,765 --> 00:13:00,499 This judge is someone you'd never want to play poker with. 242 00:13:00,499 --> 00:13:04,787 He was totally stoic. I couldn't see a twitch of his eyebrow. 243 00:13:04,787 --> 00:13:08,056 I couldn't see the slightest bend of his head. 244 00:13:08,056 --> 00:13:11,557 I had no sense of how he was reacting to this, 245 00:13:11,557 --> 00:13:14,597 and after he looked at this reenactment, 246 00:13:14,597 --> 00:13:15,677 he turned to me and he says, 247 00:13:15,677 --> 00:13:18,935 "Is there anything else you want me to look at?" 248 00:13:18,935 --> 00:13:23,430 I said, "Your honor," and I don't know whether I was 249 00:13:23,430 --> 00:13:26,387 emboldened by the scientific measurements that I had 250 00:13:26,387 --> 00:13:30,083 in my pocket and my knowledge that they are accurate, 251 00:13:30,083 --> 00:13:32,338 or whether it was just sheer stupidity, 252 00:13:32,338 --> 00:13:35,163 which is what the defense lawyers thought — (Laughter) — 253 00:13:35,163 --> 00:13:36,915 when they heard me say, 254 00:13:36,915 --> 00:13:39,619 "Yes, Your Honor, I want you stand right there 255 00:13:39,619 --> 00:13:43,955 and I want the car to go around the block again 256 00:13:43,955 --> 00:13:47,309 and I want it to come and I want it to stop 257 00:13:47,309 --> 00:13:51,499 right in front of you, three to four feet away, 258 00:13:51,499 --> 00:13:54,955 and I want the passenger to extend his hand 259 00:13:54,955 --> 00:13:56,971 with a black object and point it right at you, 260 00:13:56,971 --> 00:14:02,691 and you can look at it as long as you want." 261 00:14:02,691 --> 00:14:07,118 And that's what he saw. (Laughter) 262 00:14:07,118 --> 00:14:10,958 You'll notice, which was also in my test report, 263 00:14:10,958 --> 00:14:13,603 all the dominant lighting is coming from the north side, 264 00:14:13,603 --> 00:14:15,346 which means that the shooter's face would 265 00:14:15,346 --> 00:14:17,962 have been photo-occluded. It would have been backlit. 266 00:14:17,962 --> 00:14:19,864 Furthermore, the roof of the car 267 00:14:19,864 --> 00:14:24,138 is causing what we call a shadow cloud inside the car 268 00:14:24,138 --> 00:14:27,468 which is making it darker. 269 00:14:27,468 --> 00:14:31,580 And this is three to four feet away. 270 00:14:31,580 --> 00:14:34,708 Why did I take the risk? 271 00:14:34,708 --> 00:14:38,937 I knew that the depth of field was 18 inches or less. 272 00:14:38,937 --> 00:14:40,604 Three to four feet, it might as well have been 273 00:14:40,604 --> 00:14:45,076 a football field away. 274 00:14:45,076 --> 00:14:47,284 This is what he saw. 275 00:14:47,284 --> 00:14:51,084 He went back, there was a few more days of evidence 276 00:14:51,084 --> 00:14:53,388 that was heard. At the end of it, 277 00:14:53,388 --> 00:14:56,016 he made the judgment that he was going to grant 278 00:14:56,016 --> 00:14:59,094 the petition for a retrial. 279 00:14:59,094 --> 00:15:01,572 And furthermore, he released Mr. Carrillo 280 00:15:01,572 --> 00:15:04,559 so that he could aid in the preparation of his own defense 281 00:15:04,559 --> 00:15:10,578 if the prosecution decided to retry him. 282 00:15:10,578 --> 00:15:12,888 Which they decided not to. 283 00:15:12,888 --> 00:15:17,949 He is now a freed man. (Applause) 284 00:15:17,949 --> 00:15:21,892 (Applause) 285 00:15:21,892 --> 00:15:26,996 This is him embracing his grandmother-in-law. 286 00:15:26,996 --> 00:15:31,071 He -- His girlfriend was pregnant when he went to trial, 287 00:15:31,071 --> 00:15:35,156 right? And she had a little baby boy. 288 00:15:35,156 --> 00:15:37,837 He and his son are both attending Cal State, Long Beach 289 00:15:37,837 --> 00:15:44,025 right now taking classes. (Applause) 290 00:15:44,025 --> 00:15:47,988 And what does this example -- 291 00:15:47,988 --> 00:15:52,332 what's important to keep in mind for ourselves? 292 00:15:52,332 --> 00:15:56,028 First of all, there's a long history of antipathy 293 00:15:56,028 --> 00:15:58,108 between science and the law 294 00:15:58,108 --> 00:16:00,508 in American jurisprudence. 295 00:16:00,508 --> 00:16:03,956 I could regale you with horror stories of ignorance 296 00:16:03,956 --> 00:16:08,292 over decades of experience as a forensic expert 297 00:16:08,292 --> 00:16:12,798 of just trying to get science into the courtroom. 298 00:16:12,798 --> 00:16:17,732 The opposing council always fight it and oppose it. 299 00:16:17,732 --> 00:16:21,119 One suggestion is that all of us become much more 300 00:16:21,119 --> 00:16:23,988 attuned to the necessity, through policy, 301 00:16:23,988 --> 00:16:26,044 through procedures, 302 00:16:26,044 --> 00:16:29,228 to get more science in the courtroom, 303 00:16:29,228 --> 00:16:31,539 and I think one large step toward that 304 00:16:31,539 --> 00:16:33,381 is more requirements, 305 00:16:33,381 --> 00:16:35,940 with all due respect to the law schools, 306 00:16:35,940 --> 00:16:41,051 of science, technology, engineering, mathematics 307 00:16:41,051 --> 00:16:43,028 for anyone going into the law, 308 00:16:43,028 --> 00:16:46,652 because they become the judges. 309 00:16:46,652 --> 00:16:49,700 Think about how we select our judges in this country. 310 00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:53,060 It's very different than most other cultures. All right? 311 00:16:53,060 --> 00:16:55,470 The other one that I want to suggest, 312 00:16:55,470 --> 00:16:57,900 the caution that all of us have to have, 313 00:16:57,900 --> 00:16:59,740 I constantly have to remind myself, 314 00:16:59,740 --> 00:17:02,843 about just how accurate are the memories 315 00:17:02,843 --> 00:17:08,212 that we know are true, that we believe in? 316 00:17:08,212 --> 00:17:11,596 There is decades of research, 317 00:17:11,596 --> 00:17:15,764 examples and examples of cases like this, 318 00:17:15,764 --> 00:17:17,732 where individuals 319 00:17:17,732 --> 00:17:21,244 really, really believe. None of those teenagers 320 00:17:21,244 --> 00:17:23,076 who identified him 321 00:17:23,076 --> 00:17:26,352 thought that they were picking the wrong person. 322 00:17:26,352 --> 00:17:29,706 None of them thought they couldn't see the person's face. 323 00:17:29,706 --> 00:17:31,838 We all have to be very careful. 324 00:17:31,838 --> 00:17:35,478 All our memories are reconstructed memories. 325 00:17:35,478 --> 00:17:37,876 They are the product of what we originally experienced 326 00:17:37,876 --> 00:17:40,609 and everything that's happened afterwards. 327 00:17:40,609 --> 00:17:42,660 They're dynamic. 328 00:17:42,660 --> 00:17:45,148 They're malleable. They're volatile, 329 00:17:45,148 --> 00:17:49,172 and as a result, we all need to remember to be cautious, 330 00:17:49,172 --> 00:17:52,492 that the accuracy of our memories 331 00:17:52,492 --> 00:17:55,996 is not measured in how vivid they are 332 00:17:55,996 --> 00:18:01,127 nor how certain you are that they're correct. 333 00:18:01,127 --> 00:20:30,217 Thank you. (Applause)