1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,390
silent 30C3 preroll titles
2
00:00:09,390 --> 00:00:15,839
applause
Herald: Alright!
3
00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:18,870
Good evening, everybody.
4
00:00:18,870 --> 00:00:21,349
The ‘Saal’ is pretty full?
So I guess this is gonna be
5
00:00:21,349 --> 00:00:26,050
an interesting talk.
We are on a tight schedule.
6
00:00:26,050 --> 00:00:31,550
Our speaker, Jake Appelbaum is gonna be
joined by Julian Assange via video stream.
7
00:00:31,550 --> 00:00:35,480
I really hope that’s gonna work.
8
00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,220
So without further ado – please
welcome our speaker and… have fun!
9
00:00:40,220 --> 00:00:52,490
applause, some cheers
10
00:00:52,490 --> 00:00:55,600
Jacob Appelbaum: So we have a surprise
guest. Some of you might know her.
11
00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,680
She saved Edward Snowden’s life.
Her name is Sarah Harrison.
12
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:06,970
applause and loud cheers
13
00:01:06,970 --> 00:01:15,329
Jacob applauding as Sarah prepares
14
00:01:15,329 --> 00:01:57,499
continued applause
15
00:01:57,499 --> 00:02:00,630
Sarah Harrison: Thank you.
she and Jacob laugh
16
00:02:00,630 --> 00:02:04,230
laughter
one shout from audience
17
00:02:04,230 --> 00:02:09,418
Good evening. My name is Sarah
Harrison as you all appear to know.
18
00:02:09,418 --> 00:02:14,550
I’m a journalist working for Wikileaks.
This year I was part – as Jacob just said –
19
00:02:14,550 --> 00:02:17,780
of the Wikileaks team that saved
Snowden from a life in prison.
20
00:02:17,780 --> 00:02:21,870
This act, and my job has meant that
our legal advice is that I do not return
21
00:02:21,870 --> 00:02:26,260
to my home, the United Kingdom, due to
the ongoing terrorism investigation there,
22
00:02:26,260 --> 00:02:29,430
in relation to the movement of
Edward Snowden documents.
23
00:02:29,430 --> 00:02:33,190
The U.K. Government has chosen to
define disclosing classified documents
24
00:02:33,190 --> 00:02:37,580
with an intent to influence Government
behaviour as terrorism. I’m therefore
25
00:02:37,580 --> 00:02:42,030
currently remaining in Germany. But
it’s not just myself, personally, that has
26
00:02:42,030 --> 00:02:46,110
legal issues of Wikileaks. For a fourth
Christmas, our editor Julian Assange
27
00:02:46,110 --> 00:02:50,090
continues to be detained without charge
in the U.K. He’s been granted formal
28
00:02:50,090 --> 00:02:53,950
political asylum by Ecuador due to
the threat from the United States.
29
00:02:53,950 --> 00:02:57,950
But in breach of international law the
U.K. continues to refuse to allow him
30
00:02:57,950 --> 00:03:02,970
his legal right to take up this asylum.
In November of this year,
31
00:03:02,970 --> 00:03:07,760
a U.S. Government official confirmed that
the enormous Grand Jury investigation
32
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:13,350
which commenced in 2010 into Wikileaks,
its stuff and specifically Julian Assange
33
00:03:13,350 --> 00:03:18,000
continues. This was then confirmed by the
spokesperson of the prosecutor’s office
34
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:23,210
in Virginia. The Icelandic Parliament
held an inquiry earlier this year where it
35
00:03:23,210 --> 00:03:28,150
found that the FBI had secretly and
unlawfully sent nine agents to Iceland
36
00:03:28,150 --> 00:03:32,930
to conduct an investigation into Wikileaks
there. Further secret interrogations
37
00:03:32,930 --> 00:03:37,120
took place in Denmark and Washington.
The informant they were speaking with
38
00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:41,930
has been charged with fraud and
convicted on other charges in Iceland.
39
00:03:41,930 --> 00:03:45,650
In the Icelandic Supreme Court we won
a substantial victory over the extra-legal
40
00:03:45,650 --> 00:03:51,300
U.S. financial blockade that was erected
against us in 2010 by Visa, Mastercard,
41
00:03:51,300 --> 00:03:56,120
Paypal and other U.S. financial giants.
Subsequently, Mastercard pulled out
42
00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:01,320
of the blockade. We’ve since filed
a $77 million legal case against Visa
43
00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:07,700
for damages. We filed a suit against Visa
in Denmark as well. And in response
44
00:04:07,700 --> 00:04:12,480
to questions about how Paypal’s owner can
start a free press outlet whilst blocking
45
00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,790
another media organization, he has
announced that the PayPal blockade
46
00:04:15,790 --> 00:04:20,419
of Wikileaks has ended.
47
00:04:20,419 --> 00:04:21,879
applause
48
00:04:21,879 --> 00:04:27,819
That wasn’t meant to be a pause for your
clap, I just needed some water. Sorry!
49
00:04:27,819 --> 00:04:31,210
We filed criminal cases in Sweden and
Germany in relation to the unlawful
50
00:04:31,210 --> 00:04:37,979
Intelligence activity against us there,
including at the CCC in 2009.
51
00:04:37,979 --> 00:04:40,960
Together with the Center for Constitutional
Rights we filed a suit against the
52
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,539
U.S. military, against the unprecedented
secrecy applied to Chelsea Manning’s
53
00:04:44,539 --> 00:04:49,770
trial. Yet through these attacks we’ve
continued our publishing work. In April
54
00:04:49,770 --> 00:04:53,479
of this year, we launched the Public Library
of U.S. Diplomacy, the largest and
55
00:04:53,479 --> 00:04:57,860
most comprehensive searchable database
of U.S. diplomatic cables in the world.
56
00:04:57,860 --> 00:05:02,919
This coincided with our release of 1.7
million U.S. cables from the Kissinger period.
57
00:05:02,919 --> 00:05:07,770
We launched our third Spy Files, 249
documents from 92 global Intelligence
58
00:05:07,770 --> 00:05:13,400
contractors exposing their technology,
methods, and contracts. We completed
59
00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:18,180
releasing the Global Intelligence Files,
over five million emails from U.S. Intelligence
60
00:05:18,180 --> 00:05:21,849
firm Stratfor, the revelations from which
included documenting their spying
61
00:05:21,849 --> 00:05:25,919
on activists around the globe. We
published the primary negotiating
62
00:05:25,919 --> 00:05:30,220
positions for 14 countries of
the Trans-Pacific Partnership,
63
00:05:30,220 --> 00:05:35,840
a new international legal regime that
would control 40% of the world’s GDP.
64
00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:40,489
As well as getting Snowden asylum, we set
up Mr. Snowden’s defence fund, part of
65
00:05:40,489 --> 00:05:44,449
a broader endeavor, the Journalistic
Source Protection Defence Fund, which aims
66
00:05:44,449 --> 00:05:48,620
to protect and fund sources in trouble.
This will be an important fund for
67
00:05:48,620 --> 00:05:52,650
future sources, especially when we look
at the U.S. crackdown on whistleblowers
68
00:05:52,650 --> 00:05:56,710
like Snowden and alleged Wikileaks source
Chelsea Manning who was sentenced
69
00:05:56,710 --> 00:06:01,540
this year to 35 years in prison, and
another alleged Wikileaks source
70
00:06:01,540 --> 00:06:06,519
Jeremy Hammond, who was sentenced to ten
years in prison this November. These men
71
00:06:06,519 --> 00:06:11,490
– Snowden, Manning and Hammond – are
prime examples of a politicized youth
72
00:06:11,490 --> 00:06:15,469
who have grown up with a free internet
and want to keep it that way.
73
00:06:15,469 --> 00:06:18,680
It is this class of people that we
are here to discuss this evening,
74
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:24,139
the powers they and we all have, and can
have, and the good that we can do with it.
75
00:06:24,139 --> 00:06:28,080
I’m joined here tonight for this
discussion by two men I admire hugely:
76
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,759
– hopefully one of them will appear soon –
laughs
77
00:06:31,759 --> 00:06:36,060
Wikileaks editor-in-chief Julian Assange
and Jacob Appelbaum, both who have had
78
00:06:36,060 --> 00:06:39,460
a long history in defending our right
to knowledge, despite political
79
00:06:39,460 --> 00:06:43,760
and legal pressure. There he is!
laughs
80
00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:59,519
applause and cheers
81
00:06:59,519 --> 00:07:05,079
So, Julian, saying as I haven’t
seen you for quite a while,
82
00:07:05,079 --> 00:07:08,330
what’s been happening in this field
this year? What’s your strategic view
83
00:07:08,330 --> 00:07:10,180
about it, this fight for
freedom of knowledge?
84
00:07:10,180 --> 00:07:12,859
Are we winning or are we losing?
85
00:07:12,859 --> 00:07:15,720
Julian Assange: via A/V connection, on screen
Well, I have an 18-page speech
86
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,909
on the strategic vision. But I think
I’ve got about five> minutes, right?
87
00:07:19,909 --> 00:07:21,659
coughs
Sarah: At the most!
88
00:07:21,659 --> 00:07:26,379
No, less? Okay. Well, first off,
89
00:07:26,379 --> 00:07:31,500
it’s very interesting to see
the CCC has grown by 30%
90
00:07:31,500 --> 00:07:37,360
over the last year. And we can see the CCC
91
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:43,400
as a very important type of institution
92
00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,590
which does have analogues(?).
The CCC is a paradox
93
00:07:47,590 --> 00:07:52,529
in that it has the vibrancy of a young
movement, but also now has been going
94
00:07:52,529 --> 00:07:59,039
nearly 30 years since its founding
in 1981 by Wau Holland and others.
95
00:07:59,039 --> 00:08:01,910
video transmission stops/freezes
96
00:08:01,910 --> 00:08:08,530
Sarah: laughs Great point, great point.
laughter
97
00:08:08,530 --> 00:08:10,790
Jacob: Blame the NSA!
Sarah: He, heh?
98
00:08:10,790 --> 00:08:12,710
Jacob: Blame the NSA!
Sarah laughs
99
00:08:12,710 --> 00:08:14,620
So, the new “blame Canada”!
Sounds of Skype, reconnecting
100
00:08:14,620 --> 00:08:17,489
Sarah: Is it here or the embassy
that they’re spying on the most?
101
00:08:17,489 --> 00:08:32,899
laughter
ongoing sounds of Skype reconnecting
102
00:08:32,899 --> 00:08:37,490
Hey, such a good talk, isn’t it, guys?
she laughs
103
00:08:37,490 --> 00:08:39,970
Jacob: I wish Bruce Willis [Assange's
Skype name] would pick up the phone!
104
00:08:39,970 --> 00:08:45,400
laughter
105
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,460
Sarah: Should we move over while we’re
waiting to you, Jake? As I said, I got…
106
00:08:50,460 --> 00:08:52,720
I think that it’s quite interesting, it
does seem to be a trend that there are
107
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,760
these young, technical people. We look
at Manning, Snowden, Hammond…
108
00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,180
often sysadmins. Why are they playing
such an important role in this fight
109
00:09:01,180 --> 00:09:03,180
for freedom of information?
110
00:09:03,180 --> 00:09:05,970
Jacob: Well, so, I think there are
a couple of important points.
111
00:09:05,970 --> 00:09:11,150
The first important point is to understand
that all of us have agency, but some of us
112
00:09:11,150 --> 00:09:14,890
actually literately have more agency than
others in the sense that you have access
113
00:09:14,890 --> 00:09:20,070
to systems that give you access to
information that help to found knowledge
114
00:09:20,070 --> 00:09:25,350
that you have in your own head. So someone
like Manning or someone like Snowden
115
00:09:25,350 --> 00:09:28,610
who has access to these documents in
the course of their work, they will simply
116
00:09:28,610 --> 00:09:32,260
have a better understanding of what is
actually happening. They have access
117
00:09:32,260 --> 00:09:37,100
to the primary source documents.
That’s part of their job. This, I think,
118
00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:42,980
fundamentally is a really critical,
I would say a formative thing.
119
00:09:42,980 --> 00:09:46,070
When you start to read these original
source documents you start to understand
120
00:09:46,070 --> 00:09:50,320
the way that organizations actually think
internally. I mean, this is one of the things
121
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,920
that Julian Assange has said quite a lot,
it’s that when you read the internal
122
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,280
documents of an organization, that’s how
they really think about a thing. This is
123
00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,640
different than a press release. And people
who have grown up on the internet,
124
00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,640
and they’re essentially natives on the
internet, and that’s all of us, I think,
125
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:09,380
for the most part. It’s definitely me.
That essentially forms a way
126
00:10:09,380 --> 00:10:12,240
of thinking about organizations where
the official thing that they say
127
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,550
is not interesting. You know that
there is an agenda behind that
128
00:10:15,550 --> 00:10:19,330
and you don’t necessarily know what
that true agenda is. And so people
129
00:10:19,330 --> 00:10:23,230
who grow up in this and see these
documents, they realise the agency
130
00:10:23,230 --> 00:10:26,180
that they have. They understand it, they
see that power, and they want to do
131
00:10:26,180 --> 00:10:31,570
something about it, in some cases. Some
people do it in small starts and fits.
132
00:10:31,570 --> 00:10:34,590
So there are lots of sources for lots
of newspapers that are inside of
133
00:10:34,590 --> 00:10:38,480
defense organizations or really, really
large companies, and they share
134
00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:43,970
this information. But in the case of
Chelsea Manning, in the case of Snowden
135
00:10:43,970 --> 00:10:49,060
they went big. And I presume that this is
because of the scale of the wrongdoing
136
00:10:49,060 --> 00:10:52,750
that they saw, in addition to the
amount of agency that was provided
137
00:10:52,750 --> 00:10:56,350
by their access and by their
understanding of the actual information
138
00:10:56,350 --> 00:11:00,480
they were able to have
in their possession.
139
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,930
Sarah: And do you think that it has
something to do with being technical
140
00:11:04,930 --> 00:11:08,350
they have a potential
ability to find a way to do this
141
00:11:08,350 --> 00:11:12,730
safer than other people, perhaps? Or…
142
00:11:12,730 --> 00:11:17,450
Jacob: I mean, it’s clearly the case that
this helps. There’s no question that
143
00:11:17,450 --> 00:11:21,490
understanding how to use those computer
systems and being able to navigate them,
144
00:11:21,490 --> 00:11:24,500
that that is going to be a helpful skill.
But I think what it really is is that
145
00:11:24,500 --> 00:11:28,670
these are people who grew up in an era,
and I myself am one of these people,
146
00:11:28,670 --> 00:11:32,260
where we grew up in an era where we’re
overloaded by information but we still
147
00:11:32,260 --> 00:11:36,330
are able to absorb a great deal of it.
And we really are constantly going
148
00:11:36,330 --> 00:11:40,380
through this. And if we look to the past,
we see that it’s not just technical people,
149
00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:44,060
it’s actually people who have an
analytical mind. So e.g. Daniel Ellsberg,
150
00:11:44,060 --> 00:11:48,500
who is famous for the ‘Ellsberg Paradox’.
He was of course a very seriously
151
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:52,360
embedded person in the U.S. military.
He was in the RAND corporation,
152
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,430
he worked with McNamara.
And during the Vietnam War
153
00:11:55,430 --> 00:11:59,980
he had access to huge amounts of
information. And it was the ability
154
00:11:59,980 --> 00:12:04,120
to analyze this information
and to understand, in this case
155
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,230
how the U.S. Government during the
Vietnam War was lying to the entire world.
156
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:12,450
And it was the magnitude of those lies
combined with the ability to prove that
157
00:12:12,450 --> 00:12:18,040
they were lies that, I believe, combined
with his analytical skill it was clear
158
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,370
what the action might be. But it wasn’t
clear what the outcome would be.
159
00:12:22,370 --> 00:12:25,980
And with Ellsberg, the outcome was
a very positive one. In fact it’s
160
00:12:25,980 --> 00:12:28,820
the most positive outcome for any
whistleblower so far that I know of
161
00:12:28,820 --> 00:12:32,100
in the history of the United States
and maybe even in the world.
162
00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:36,070
What we see right now with Snowden and
what we’ve now seen with Chelsea Manning
163
00:12:36,070 --> 00:12:39,490
is unfortunately a very different
outcome, at least for Manning.
164
00:12:39,490 --> 00:12:45,190
So this is also a hugely important
point which is that Ellsberg did this
165
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:50,040
in the context of resistance against the
Vietnam War. And when Ellsberg did this,
166
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,050
there were huge support networks, there
were gigantic things that split across
167
00:12:54,050 --> 00:12:59,840
all political spectrums of society.
And so it is the analytical framework
168
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,380
that we find ourselves with, still;
but additionally with the internet.
169
00:13:03,380 --> 00:13:06,930
And so every single person here
that works as a sysadmin, could you
170
00:13:06,930 --> 00:13:14,260
raise your hand? Right. You represent
– and I’m sorry to steal Julian’s thunder,
171
00:13:14,260 --> 00:13:23,520
but he was using Skype, and… well…
laughter and applause
172
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,740
But we all know Skype has interception
and man-in-the-middle problems, so…
173
00:13:26,740 --> 00:13:33,060
I’m gonna take advantage of that fact. You
see, it’s not just the NSA. Everyone that
174
00:13:33,060 --> 00:13:38,870
raised their hand, you should raise your
hand again! If you work at a company
175
00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:41,480
where you think that they might be
involved in something that is
176
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:47,020
a little bit scary, keep your hand up!
laughter
177
00:13:47,020 --> 00:13:52,950
Right. So here’s the deal: everybody else
in the room lacks the information that
178
00:13:52,950 --> 00:13:57,380
you probably have access to. And if you
were to make a moral judgment, if you
179
00:13:57,380 --> 00:14:01,090
were to make an ethical consideration
about these things, it would be the case
180
00:14:01,090 --> 00:14:05,420
that as a political class you would
be able to inform all of the other
181
00:14:05,420 --> 00:14:08,910
political classes in this room, all of the
other people in this room, in a way that
182
00:14:08,910 --> 00:14:13,970
only you have the agency to do. And those
who benefit from you never doing that,
183
00:14:13,970 --> 00:14:18,190
or the other people that have that. Those
people also are members of other classes
184
00:14:18,190 --> 00:14:22,060
as well. And so the question is: If you
were to unite as a political class,
185
00:14:22,060 --> 00:14:25,320
and we are to unite with you in that
political class, we can see that there’s
186
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:30,970
a contextual way to view this through
a historical lens, essentially.
187
00:14:30,970 --> 00:14:33,820
Which is to say that when the
industrialized workers of the world
188
00:14:33,820 --> 00:14:38,680
decided that race and gender were not
lines that we should split on, but instead
189
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:43,730
we should look at workers and owners, then
we started to see real change in the way
190
00:14:43,730 --> 00:14:47,970
that workers were treated and in the way
that the world itself was organizing labor.
191
00:14:47,970 --> 00:14:51,780
And this was a hugely important change
during the Industrial Revolution.
192
00:14:51,780 --> 00:14:55,470
And we are going through a very similar
time now with regard to information
193
00:14:55,470 --> 00:15:02,280
politics and with regard to the value
of information in our information age.
194
00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:09,490
Skype connection being re-established
applause
195
00:15:09,490 --> 00:15:15,270
Skype connection just terminates again
laughter
196
00:15:15,270 --> 00:15:18,880
Jacob: Fantastic, Bruce Willis!
197
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,950
laughter
198
00:15:23,950 --> 00:15:28,490
Hahahaha! Jesus Christ,
Julian, use Jitsy already!
199
00:15:28,490 --> 00:15:36,250
laughter, applause and cheers
200
00:15:36,250 --> 00:15:39,660
Sarah: And so, we’ve identified the
potential of the people that you were
201
00:15:39,660 --> 00:15:43,500
talking about. So you’ve spoken about
how it’s good for them to unite.
202
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:47,020
What are the next steps? How do they come
forth? How do they share this information?
203
00:15:47,020 --> 00:15:51,180
Jacob: Well, let’s consider a couple of
things. First is that Bradley Manning
204
00:15:51,180 --> 00:15:58,720
– now Chelsea Manning, Daniel Ellsberg
– still Daniel Ellsberg, Edward Snowden
205
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,690
– living in exile in Russia, unfortunately…
206
00:16:01,690 --> 00:16:05,520
Sarah: …still Edward Snowden!
Jacob: Still Edward Snowden! Hopefully.
207
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,940
Sarah laughs
These are people who have taken
208
00:16:07,940 --> 00:16:13,470
great actions where they did not even set
out to sacrifice themselves. But once
209
00:16:13,470 --> 00:16:16,930
when I met Daniel Ellsberg he said:
“Wouldn’t you go to prison for the rest
210
00:16:16,930 --> 00:16:20,610
of your life to end this war?” This is
something he asked me, and he asked it
211
00:16:20,610 --> 00:16:24,050
to me quite seriously. And it’s very
incredible to be able to ask
212
00:16:24,050 --> 00:16:26,040
a hypothetical question…
Skype ringing out
213
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,880
…of someone. That wasn’t a hypothetical
question! What he was trying to say is
214
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,640
that right now you can make a choice in
which you can actually have a huge impact,
215
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,780
should you chose to take on that risk.
But the point is not to set out
216
00:16:38,780 --> 00:16:41,530
to martyr yourself.
The point is to set out…
217
00:16:41,530 --> 00:16:43,910
Are you gonna stick
around this time, Julian?
218
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:48,020
Julian: via Skype I don’t know, I’m
waiting for the quantum hand, Jake.
219
00:16:48,020 --> 00:16:50,460
Jacob: The quantum hand
that wants to strangle you?
220
00:16:50,460 --> 00:16:56,770
Julian: Yeah! I have protection!
Jacob: We were just discussing right now
221
00:16:56,770 --> 00:17:00,720
the previous context, that is Daniel
Ellsberg, the Edward Snowdens,
222
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,900
the Chelsea Mannings, how they have done
an honorable, or good thing where they’ve
223
00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:08,539
shown a duty to a greater humanity.
I think that is more important than
224
00:17:08,539 --> 00:17:13,500
loyalty, e.g. to a bureaucratic oath, but
rather loyalty to universal principles.
225
00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:17,059
So the next question is: how does that
relate to the people that are here
226
00:17:17,059 --> 00:17:20,970
in the audience? How is it the case that
people who have access to systems
227
00:17:20,970 --> 00:17:23,659
where they have said themselves they
think the companies they work for are
228
00:17:23,659 --> 00:17:26,779
sort of questionable, or doing
dangerous things in the world?
229
00:17:26,779 --> 00:17:29,509
Where do we go from people who
have done these things previously
230
00:17:29,509 --> 00:17:32,459
to these people in the audience?
231
00:17:32,459 --> 00:17:37,860
Julian: Well, I don’t know how much ground
you covered, but I think it’s important
232
00:17:37,860 --> 00:17:47,609
that we recognize what we are, and what we
have become. And that high tech workers are
233
00:17:47,609 --> 00:17:51,840
a particular class. In fact, very
often it’s ‘class hacking’…(?).
234
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:58,469
…class … a position to in fact
prompt the leaders of society…
235
00:17:58,469 --> 00:18:02,960
[audio crippled, incomprehensible]
236
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,509
[audio crippled, incomprehensible]
mumble in the audience
237
00:18:07,509 --> 00:18:11,879
laughter
238
00:18:11,879 --> 00:18:14,290
Sarah: Should we just leave
him like that and continue?
239
00:18:14,290 --> 00:18:18,600
laughter
240
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:30,560
laughter and applause
241
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,499
Julian: Am I back?
Audience and speakers: Yeah!!
242
00:18:33,499 --> 00:18:36,100
Sarah: You’ve got three minutes!
To say something!
243
00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:38,990
Julian: Alright!
Sarah: Make it good!
244
00:18:38,990 --> 00:18:43,169
Julian: Those high tech workers – we are
a particular class and it’s time that
245
00:18:43,169 --> 00:18:47,489
we recognized that we are a class. And
looked back in history and understood
246
00:18:47,489 --> 00:18:53,230
that the great gains in human rights and
education etc. that were gained through
247
00:18:53,230 --> 00:18:56,279
powerful industrial workers which
formed the backbone of the economy
248
00:18:56,279 --> 00:19:01,249
of the 20th century, and that we have
that same ability but even more so
249
00:19:01,249 --> 00:19:06,630
because of the greater interconnection
that exists now economically and
250
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:10,309
politically. Which is all underpinned by
system administrators. And we should
251
00:19:10,309 --> 00:19:15,980
understand that system administrators are
not just those people who administer
252
00:19:15,980 --> 00:19:21,950
one UNIX system or another. They are
the people who administer systems. And
253
00:19:21,950 --> 00:19:27,919
the system that exists globally now is
created by the interconnection of many
254
00:19:27,919 --> 00:19:36,049
individual systems. And we are all… or
many of us are part of administering
255
00:19:36,049 --> 00:19:42,659
that system and have extraordinary
power in a way that is really
256
00:19:42,659 --> 00:19:46,950
an order of magnitude different to
the power industrial workers had
257
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:52,469
back in the 20th century. And we can
see that in the cases of the famous leaks
258
00:19:52,469 --> 00:19:56,489
that Wikileaks has done or the
recent Edward Snowden revelations,
259
00:19:56,489 --> 00:20:01,320
it is possible now for even a single system
administrator to have a very significant
260
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:08,280
change to the… or rather apply a very
significant constructive constraint
261
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,749
to the behavior of these organizations.
Not merely wrecking or disabling them,
262
00:20:12,749 --> 00:20:19,150
not merely going out on strikes to
change a policy, but rather shifting
263
00:20:19,150 --> 00:20:24,419
an information apartheid system
which we’re developing
264
00:20:24,419 --> 00:20:27,340
from those with extraordinary power
and extraordinary information
265
00:20:27,340 --> 00:20:32,519
into the knowledge commons, where it can
be used not only as a disciplining force,
266
00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:37,340
but it can be used to construct
and understand the new world
267
00:20:37,340 --> 00:20:42,619
that we’re entering into. Now, Hayden,
the former Director of the CIA and NSA,
268
00:20:42,619 --> 00:20:46,119
is terrified of this. In "Cypherpunks:
[Freedom and the Future of the Internet]"
269
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:54,179
we called for this directly last year.
But to give you an interesting quote
270
00:20:54,179 --> 00:21:03,780
from Hayden, possibly following up
on those words of mine and others:
271
00:21:03,780 --> 00:21:07,559
“We need to recruit from Snowden’s
generation” says Hayden, “we need
272
00:21:07,559 --> 00:21:11,480
to recruit from this group because
they have the skills that we require.
273
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,269
So the challenge is how to recruit this
talent while also protecting ourselves
274
00:21:15,269 --> 00:21:21,179
from the small fraction of the population
that has this romantic attachment
275
00:21:21,179 --> 00:21:25,850
to absolute transparency at
all costs.” And that’s us, right?
276
00:21:25,850 --> 00:21:30,789
So, what we need to do is
spread that message and
277
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:34,499
go into all those organizations.
In fact, deal with them. I’m not saying
278
00:21:34,499 --> 00:21:39,199
“Don’t join the CIA”. No, go
and join the CIA! Go in there!
279
00:21:39,199 --> 00:21:45,529
Go into the ballpark and get the ball
and bring it out, with the understanding,
280
00:21:45,529 --> 00:21:50,340
with the paranoia, that all those
organizations will be infiltrated
281
00:21:50,340 --> 00:21:54,770
by this generation, by an ideology
that is spread across the internet.
282
00:21:54,770 --> 00:21:58,850
And every young person is educated
on the internet. There will be no person
283
00:21:58,850 --> 00:22:04,499
that has not been exposed
to this ideology of transparency
284
00:22:04,499 --> 00:22:09,019
and understanding and wanting to keep
the internet which we were born into free.
285
00:22:09,019 --> 00:22:14,830
This is the last free generation.
The coming together of these
286
00:22:14,830 --> 00:22:20,289
systems of governments, the new
information apartheid across the world,
287
00:22:20,289 --> 00:22:25,790
and linking it together such that
none of us will be able to escape it.
288
00:22:25,790 --> 00:22:30,720
In just a decade. Our identities will be
coupled to it, the information sharing
289
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,409
in such that none of us will be able
to escape it. We are all becoming
290
00:22:35,409 --> 00:22:39,919
part of the state, whether we like it or
not. So our only hope is to determine
291
00:22:39,919 --> 00:22:45,129
what sort of state it is that we are going
to become part of. And we can do that
292
00:22:45,129 --> 00:22:51,420
by looking and being inspired by some of
the actions that produced human rights
293
00:22:51,420 --> 00:22:55,191
and free education etc. by people
recognizing that they were
294
00:22:55,191 --> 00:23:00,320
part of the state, recognizing their own
power and taking concrete and robust
295
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:05,070
action to make sure they lived in
the sort of society that they wanted to
296
00:23:05,070 --> 00:23:09,049
and not in a hell-hole dystopia.
297
00:23:09,049 --> 00:23:10,406
Sarah: Thank you!
298
00:23:10,406 --> 00:23:22,299
applause
299
00:23:22,299 --> 00:23:26,740
So basically all those poor people Jake
just made identify themselves, you have
300
00:23:26,740 --> 00:23:31,549
the power to change more systems than
the one you’re working on right now.
301
00:23:31,549 --> 00:23:34,809
And I think it’s time to take some
questions because we don’t have long left.
302
00:23:34,809 --> 00:23:39,970
If there are any… I did… what’s the…
303
00:23:39,970 --> 00:23:43,040
Herald: If you do have questions please
line up in the middle of the room.
304
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,309
We have microphones there.
305
00:23:46,309 --> 00:23:51,239
If you cannot reach one, please put your
hand up and we’ll try to get one to you.
306
00:23:51,239 --> 00:23:54,800
Julian: While we wait for the first
question I’d just like to say I’m not sure
307
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,380
how many people are in there.
It looks like that it’s quite a lot.
308
00:23:57,380 --> 00:23:59,230
Sarah: Start going to the mike, even while
he’s talking, if you do have a question.
309
00:23:59,230 --> 00:24:01,959
Cause otherwise we won’t know that you
have one, and we’ll just keep on going!
310
00:24:01,959 --> 00:24:05,499
Julian: It looks like there’s
quite a … apologize …
311
00:24:05,499 --> 00:24:07,169
Herald: Alternatively just raise your
hand, and we’ll try to go to you.
312
00:24:07,169 --> 00:24:08,929
Julian: It looks like there’s
quite a lot of people there,
313
00:24:08,929 --> 00:24:13,100
but you should all know that
due to the various sorts of proximity
314
00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:19,399
measures that are now employed by
NSA, GCHQ and Five Eyes Alliance,
315
00:24:19,399 --> 00:24:23,070
if you’ve come there with a telephone, or
if you have been even in Hamburg
316
00:24:23,070 --> 00:24:28,380
with a telephone, you are all now coupled
to us. You are coupled to this event.
317
00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:32,820
You are coupled to this speech in an
irrevocable way. And that is now true
318
00:24:32,820 --> 00:24:38,239
for many people. So either
we have to take command
319
00:24:38,239 --> 00:24:42,019
of the position that we have, understand
the position we have, understand
320
00:24:42,019 --> 00:24:47,460
that we are the last free people, and the
last people essentially with an ability
321
00:24:47,460 --> 00:24:51,779
to act in this situation.
Or we are the group
322
00:24:51,779 --> 00:24:57,549
that will be crushed
because of this association.
323
00:24:57,549 --> 00:25:03,579
applause
324
00:25:03,579 --> 00:25:07,239
Herald: I’d say I think we
have a question at the mike 4.
325
00:25:07,239 --> 00:25:12,709
Question: So you were talking about the
sysadmins here. What about those people
326
00:25:12,709 --> 00:25:17,960
who are not sysadmins? Not only
joining CIA and those companies,
327
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,369
what else can we do?
328
00:25:20,369 --> 00:25:22,239
Sarah: Jake, do you want
to have a go at that one?
329
00:25:22,239 --> 00:25:24,039
Jacob: Sure.
Skype end-connection sound
330
00:25:24,039 --> 00:25:26,039
So this is a question of agency, right?
Sarah: Good timing!
331
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:30,710
It’s a question in which one has to ask
very simply, what is it that you feel like
332
00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:34,440
you CAN do? And many people that are
in this audience I’ve had this discussion
333
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:39,559
with them. E.g. Edward Snowden did
not save himself. I mean he obviously
334
00:25:39,559 --> 00:25:44,090
had some ideas, but Sarah e.g., not as a
system administrator, but as someone
335
00:25:44,090 --> 00:25:48,610
who is willing to risk her person.
She helped specifically
336
00:25:48,610 --> 00:25:52,209
for source protection, she took actions
to protect him. So there are plenty
337
00:25:52,209 --> 00:25:56,309
of things that can be done. To give you
some idea, as Edward Snowden’s
338
00:25:56,309 --> 00:25:59,850
still sitting in Russia now, there are
things that can be done to help him
339
00:25:59,850 --> 00:26:03,799
even now. And there are things to show
that, if we can succeed in saving Edward
340
00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:08,429
Snowden’s life and to keep him free, that
the next Edward Snowden will have that
341
00:26:08,429 --> 00:26:12,830
to look forward to. And if we look also
to what has happened to Chelsea Manning,
342
00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:18,440
we see additionally that Snowden has
clearly learned. Just as Thomas Drake
343
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,440
and Bill Binney set an example for every
single person about what to do or
344
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:27,009
what not to do. It’s not just about system
administrators, it’s about all of us
345
00:26:27,009 --> 00:26:32,800
actually recognizing that positive
contribution that each of us can make.
346
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,350
Herald: Okay. Our next question
will be microphone 2, please.
347
00:26:36,350 --> 00:26:40,280
applause
348
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:45,340
Question: Hi Julian, I’m wondering, do you
believe that transparency alone is enough
349
00:26:45,340 --> 00:26:53,490
to inject some form of conscience
into ‘evil’ organizations,
350
00:26:53,490 --> 00:26:56,549
and if not, what do you
believe the next step
351
00:26:56,549 --> 00:26:59,480
after transparency is?
352
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,529
Julian: It’s not about injecting
conscience. It’s about providing
353
00:27:03,529 --> 00:27:08,939
two things: One, an effective deterrent
to particular forms of behavior
354
00:27:08,939 --> 00:27:15,759
and two, finding that information which
allows us to construct an order
355
00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:20,549
in the world around us, to educate
ourselves in how the world works
356
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:27,169
and therefore be able to manage
the world that we are a part of.
357
00:27:27,169 --> 00:27:32,200
The restriction of information, the
restriction of those bits of information
358
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,590
colors it. It gives off an economic
signal that that information is important
359
00:27:36,590 --> 00:27:39,909
when it’s released. Because otherwise
why would you spend so much work
360
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:44,729
in restricting it? So the people who
know it best restrict it. We should take
361
00:27:44,729 --> 00:27:49,320
their measurement of that information
as a guide and use that to pull it out
362
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:54,549
where it can achieve some kind of
reform. That in itself is not enough.
363
00:27:54,549 --> 00:28:00,860
It creates an intellectual commons
which is part of our mutual education.
364
00:28:00,860 --> 00:28:06,940
But we need to understand – say,
if we look at the Occupy event,
365
00:28:06,940 --> 00:28:13,289
a very interesting political event – where
revelations and perhaps destabilization
366
00:28:13,289 --> 00:28:18,210
led to a mass, a very large group
of people wanting to do something.
367
00:28:18,210 --> 00:28:22,989
However, there was no organizational
scaffold for these people
368
00:28:22,989 --> 00:28:30,440
to attach themselves to, no nucleus
for these people to crystallize onto.
369
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:37,049
And it is that problem, which is an endemic
problem of the anarchist left, actually.
370
00:28:37,049 --> 00:28:43,269
The CCC. Why are we having this right now?
Because the CCC is an organized structure.
371
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:47,230
It’s a structure which has been able
to grow, to accommodate the 30%
372
00:28:47,230 --> 00:28:53,289
of extra people that have occurred this
year. To shift and change and act like
373
00:28:53,289 --> 00:28:57,309
one of the better workers’
universities that are around.
374
00:28:57,309 --> 00:29:02,779
So we have to form unions and networks
375
00:29:02,779 --> 00:29:07,159
and create programs and organizational
structures. And those organizational
376
00:29:07,159 --> 00:29:14,009
structures can also be written in code.
Bitcoin e.g. is an organizational structure
377
00:29:14,009 --> 00:29:20,680
that creates an intermediary between
people and sets up rules between people.
378
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,970
It may end up as a quite totalitarian
system one day, who knows? But
379
00:29:24,970 --> 00:29:30,210
at the moment it provides some kind of
balancing. So code and human structures
380
00:29:30,210 --> 00:29:34,340
do things. Wikileaks was able to rescue
Edward Snowden because we are
381
00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:39,209
an organized institution
with collective experience.
382
00:29:39,209 --> 00:29:41,200
Sarah: Okay, I think there’s
one question left for me
383
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,250
that’s coming from the internet.
384
00:29:43,250 --> 00:29:46,320
Signal Angel: Yes, on IRC there was the
question: What was the most difficult
385
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:51,010
part on getting Snowden out of the U.S.?
386
00:29:51,010 --> 00:29:53,890
Jacob: Hah!
Julian laughs
387
00:29:53,890 --> 00:29:55,659
Jacob: That’s quite a loaded question!
388
00:29:55,659 --> 00:29:59,820
Julian: Yeah, that’s interesting to think
whether we can actually answer
389
00:29:59,820 --> 00:30:05,580
that question at all. I’ll give a variant of the
answer because of the legal situation
390
00:30:05,580 --> 00:30:12,290
it is a little bit difficult. As some of
you may know the U.K. Government has
391
00:30:12,290 --> 00:30:18,509
admitted to spending £6 million a year
approximately surveilling this embassy,
392
00:30:18,509 --> 00:30:25,779
in the police forces alone. So you can
imagine the difficulty in communicating
393
00:30:25,779 --> 00:30:30,909
with various people in different countries
in relation to his diplomatic asylum and
394
00:30:30,909 --> 00:30:39,060
into logistics in Hong Kong in a situation
like that. And the only reason we were
395
00:30:39,060 --> 00:30:44,549
able to succeed is because
of extremely dilligent u…
396
00:30:44,549 --> 00:30:47,870
video transmission freezes
audience uneasy
397
00:30:47,870 --> 00:30:50,179
Jacob: Perfectly timed!
Sarah: And we didn’t use Skype!
398
00:30:50,179 --> 00:30:53,559
laughs
laughter
399
00:30:53,559 --> 00:30:55,600
Jacob: Do we have time
for one more question?
400
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,949
Herald: I think we ran out
of our time, I’m very sorry.
401
00:30:58,949 --> 00:31:01,610
Jacob: That was such a fantastic, perfect
way to make sure that you didn’t learn
402
00:31:01,610 --> 00:31:03,550
the answer to that question!
Sarah: Hehe, yeah!
403
00:31:03,550 --> 00:31:05,739
laughter
404
00:31:05,739 --> 00:31:13,910
applause
405
00:31:13,910 --> 00:31:15,630
Herald: Unfortunately that is all
the time we have for this talk…
406
00:31:15,630 --> 00:31:16,980
Skype sounds audible
laughter
407
00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:17,910
From audience: …he wants to say goodbye!
408
00:31:17,910 --> 00:31:24,900
Herald: …but I want you all, to still (?)
thank you: Jake Appelbaum! Thank you.
409
00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:28,250
applause
I’m very sorry…
410
00:31:28,250 --> 00:31:30,530
silent postroll titles
411
00:31:30,530 --> 00:31:37,226
subtitles created by c3subtitles.de
in the year 2017. Join, and help us!