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I want to talk about sex for money.

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I'm not like most of the people
you'll have heard speaking

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about prostitution before.

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I'm not a police officer
or a social worker.

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I'm not an academic,
a journalist or a politician.

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I'm not a nun, either.

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Most of those people would tell you
that selling sex is degrading.

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That no-one would ever choose to do it.

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That it's dangerous -
women get abused and killed.

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In fact, most of those people would say
there should be a law against it.

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And maybe that sounds reasonable to you.

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It sounded reasonable to me.

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Until the closing months of 2009

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when I was working two dead-end,
minimum wage jobs.

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Every month my wages would just replenish
my overdraft.

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I was exhaused
and my life was going nowhere.

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Like many others before me,

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I decided sex for money
was a better option.

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And don't get me wrong, I would have loved
to have won the lottery instead.

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But it wasn't going to happen
any time soon,

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and my rent needed paying.

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So I signed up
for my first shift in a brothel.

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In the years that have passed,
I've had a lot of time to think.

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I've reconsidered the ideas I once had
about prostitution.

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I've given a lot of thought to consent

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and the nature of work under capitalism.

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I've thought about gender inequality

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and the sexual and reproductive
labor of women.

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I've experienced exploitation
and violence at work.

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I've thought about what's needed

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to protect other sex workers
from these things.

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Maybe you've thought about them, too.

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In this talk,

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I'll take you through
the four main legal approaches

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applied to sex work throughout the world,

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and explain why they don't work;

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why prohibiting the sex industry
actually exacerbates every harm

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that sex workers are vulnerable to.

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Then I'm going tell you about what we,
as sex workers, actually want.

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The first approach
is full criminalization.

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Half the world,

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including Russia, South Africa
and most of the US,

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regulates sex work by criminalizing
everyone involved.

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So that's seller, buyer and third parties.

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Lawmakers in these countries
apparently hope

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that the fear of getting arrested
will deter people from selling sex.

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But if you're forced to choose
between obeying the law

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and feeding yourself or your family,

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you're going to do the work anyway,

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and take the risk.

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Criminalization is a trap.

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It's hard to get a conventional job
when you have a criminal record.

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Potential employers won't hire you.

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Assuming you still need money,

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you'll stay in the more flexible,
informal economy.

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The law forces you to keep selling sex,

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which is the exact opposite
of its intended effect.

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Being criminalized leaves you exposed
to mistreatment by the state itself.

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In many places you may be coerced
into paying a bribe

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or even into having sex
with a police officer

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to avoid arrest.

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Police and prison guards
in Cambodia, for example,

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have been documented
subjecting sex workers

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to what can only be described as torture:

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threats at gunpoint,

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beatings, electric shocks, rape

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and denial of food.

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Another worrying thing:

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if you're selling sex in places
like Kenya, South Africa or New York,

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a police officer can arrest you
if you're caught carrying condoms,

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because condoms can legally be used
as evidence that you're selling sex.

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Obviously, this increases HIV risk.

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Imagine knowing if you're busted
carrying condoms,

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it'll be used against you.

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It's a pretty strong incentive
to leave them at home, right?

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Sex workers working in these places
are forced to make a tough choice

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between risking arrest
or having risky sex.

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What would you choose?

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Would you pack condoms to go to work?

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How about if you're worried

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the police officer would rape you
when he got you in the van?

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The second approach to regulating
sex work seen in these countries

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is partial criminalization,

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where the buying and selling
of sex are legal,

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but surrounding activities,

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like brothel-keeping or soliciting
on the street, are banned.

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Laws like these --

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we have them in the UK and in France --

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essentially say to us sex workers,

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"Hey, we don't mind you selling sex,

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just make sure it's done
behind closed doors

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and all alone."

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And brothel-keeping, by the way,

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is defined as just two or more
sex workers working together.

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Making that illegal means
that many of us work alone,

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which obviously makes us
vulnerable to violent offenders.

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But we're also vulnerable

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if we choose to break the law
by working together.

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A couple of years ago,

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a friend of mine was nervous
after she was attacked at work,

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so I said that she could see her clients
from my place for a while.

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During that time,

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we had another guy turn nasty.

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I told the guy to leave
or I'd call the police.

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And he looked at the two of us and said,

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"You girls can't call the cops.

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You're working together,
this place is illegal."

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He was right.

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He eventually left
without getting physically violent,

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but the knowledge
that we were breaking the law

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empowered that man to threaten us.

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He felt confident he'd get away with it.

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The prohibition of street prostitution
also causes more harm

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than it prevents.

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Firstly, to avoid getting arrested,

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street workers take risks
to avoid detection,

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and that means working alone

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or in isolated locations like dark forests

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where they're vulnerable to attack.

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If you're caught selling sex outdoors,

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you pay a fine.

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How do you pay that fine
without going back to the streets?

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It was the need for money
that saw you in the streets

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in the first place.

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And so the fines stack up,

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and you're caught in a vicious cycle

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of selling sex to pay the fines
you got for selling sex.

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Let me tell you about Mariana Popa
who worked in Redbridge, East London.

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The street workers on her patch
would normally wait for clients in groups

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for safety in numbers

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and to warn each other about how
to avoid dangerous guys.

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But during a police crackdown
on sex workers and their clients,

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she was forced to work alone
to avoid being arrested.

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She was stabbed to death
in the early hours of October 29, 2013.

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She had been working later than usual

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to try to pay off a fine
she had received for soliciting.

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So if criminalizing
sex workers hurts them,

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why not just criminalize
the people who buy sex?

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This is the aim of the third approach

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I want to talk about --

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the Swedish or Nordic
model of sex-work law.

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The idea behind this law

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is that selling sex
is intrinsically harmful

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and so you're, in fact, helping
sex workers by removing the option.

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Despite growing support

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for what's often described
as the "end demand" approach,

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there's no evidence that it works.

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There's just as much prostitution
in Sweden as there was before.

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Why might that be?

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It's because people selling sex

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often don't have other options for income.

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If you need that money,

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the only effect that a drop
in business is going have

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is to force you to lower your prices

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or offer more risky sexual services.

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If you need to find more clients,

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you might seek the help of a manager.

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So you see, rather than putting a stop

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to what's often descried as pimping,

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a law like this actually gives oxygen

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to potentially abusive third parties.

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To keep safe in my work,

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I try not to take bookings from someone

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who calls me from a withheld number.

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If it's a home or a hotel visit,

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I try to get a full name and details.

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If I worked under the Swedish model,

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a client would be too scared
to give me that information.

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I might have no other choice

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but to accept a booking
from a man who is untraceable

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if he later turns out to be violent.

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If you need their money,

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you need to protect
your clients from the police.

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If you work outdoors,

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that means working alone
or in isolated locations,

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just as if you were criminalized yourself.

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It might mean getting into cars quicker,

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less negotiating time
means snap decisions.

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Is this guy dangerous or just nervous?

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Can you afford to take the risk?

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Can you afford not to?

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Something I'm often hearing is,

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"Prostitution would be fine

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if we made it legal and regulated it."

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We call that approach legalization,

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and it's used by countries
like the Netherlands, Germany

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and Nevada in the US.

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But it's not a great
model for human rights.

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And in state-controlled prostitution,

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commercial sex can only happen

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in certain legally-designated
areas or venues,

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and sex workers are made to comply
with special restrictions,

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like registration
and forced health checks.

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Regulation sounds great on paper,

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but politicians deliberately make
regulation around the sex industry

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expensive and difficult to comply with.

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It creates a two-tiered system:
legal and illegal work.

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We sometimes call it
"backdoor criminalization."

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Rich, well-connected brothel owners
can comply with the regulations,

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but more marginalized people
find those hoops

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impossible to jump through.

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And even if it's possible in principle,

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getting a license or proper venue
takes time and costs money.

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It's not going to be an option

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for someone who's desperate
and needs money tonight.

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They might be a refugee
or fleeing domestic abuse.

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In this two-tiered system,

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the most vulnerable people
are forced to work illegally,

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so they're still exposed to all
the dangers of criminalization

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I mentioned earlier.

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It's looking like all attempts to control

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or prevent sex work from happening

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makes things more dangerous
for people selling sex.

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Fear of law enforcement makes them
work alone in isolated locations,

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and allows clients and even cops

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to get abusive in the knowledge
they'll get away with it.

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Fines and criminal records force
people to keep selling sex,

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rather than enabling them to stop.

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Crackdowns on buyers drive sellers
to take dangerous risks

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and into the arms
of potentially abusive managers.

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These laws also reinforce stigma
and hatred against sex workers.

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When France temporarily brought in
the Swedish model two years ago,

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ordinary citizens took it as a cue

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to start carrying out vigilante attacks

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00:09:29,625 --> 00:09:31,764
against people working on the street.

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In Sweden, opinion surveys show

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that significantly more people want
sex workers to be arrested now

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than before the law was brought in.

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If prohibition is this harmful,

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you might ask, why is it so popular?

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Firstly, sex work is and always
has been a survival strategy

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for all kinds of unpopular
minority groups:

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people of color,

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migrants,

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people with disabilities,

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LGBTQ people,

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particularly trans women.

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These are the groups most heavily profiled

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and punished through prohibitionist law.

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I don't think this is an accident.

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These laws have political support

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precisely because they target people

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that voters don't want
to see or know about.

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Why else might people support prohibition?

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Well, lots of people have
understandable fears about trafficking.

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Folks think that foreign women
kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery

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can be saved by shutting
a whole industry down.

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So let's talk about trafficking.

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Forced labor does occur
in many industries,

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especially those where the workers
are migrants or otherwise vulnerable,

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and this needs to be addressed.

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But it's best addressed with legislation
targeting those specific abuses,

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not an entire industry.

254
00:10:45,791 --> 00:10:48,168
When 23 undocumented Chinese migrants

255
00:10:48,192 --> 00:10:51,109
drowned while picking cockles
in Morecambe Bay in 2004,

256
00:10:51,133 --> 00:10:54,069
there were no calls to outlaw
the entire seafood industry

257
00:10:54,093 --> 00:10:56,154
to save trafficking victims.

258
00:10:56,178 --> 00:10:59,533
The solution is clearly to give
workers more legal protections,

259
00:10:59,557 --> 00:11:01,326
allowing them to resist abuse

260
00:11:01,350 --> 00:11:04,390
and report it to authorities
without fear of arrest.

261
00:11:04,414 --> 00:11:06,714
The way the term trafficking
is thrown around

262
00:11:06,738 --> 00:11:10,959
implies that all undocumented
migration into prostitution is forced.

263
00:11:11,423 --> 00:11:14,429
In fact, many migrants
have made a decision,

264
00:11:14,453 --> 00:11:15,707
out of economic need,

265
00:11:15,731 --> 00:11:18,514
to place themselves into the hands
of people smugglers.

266
00:11:18,538 --> 00:11:20,320
Many do this with the full knowledge

267
00:11:20,344 --> 00:11:23,547
that they'll be selling sex
when they reach their destination.

268
00:11:23,571 --> 00:11:25,324
And yes, it can often be the case

269
00:11:25,348 --> 00:11:28,593
that these people smugglers
demand exorbitant fees,

270
00:11:28,617 --> 00:11:31,521
coerce migrants into work
they don't want to do

271
00:11:31,545 --> 00:11:33,432
and abuse them when they're vulnerable.

272
00:11:33,456 --> 00:11:34,959
That's true of prostitution,

273
00:11:34,983 --> 00:11:36,930
but it's also true of agricultural work,

274
00:11:36,954 --> 00:11:39,105
hospitality work and domestic work.

275
00:11:39,653 --> 00:11:43,046
Ultimately, nobody wants
to be forced to do any kind of work,

276
00:11:43,070 --> 00:11:45,571
but that's a risk many migrants
are willing to take,

277
00:11:45,595 --> 00:11:47,465
because of what they're leaving behind.

278
00:11:47,489 --> 00:11:49,449
If people were allowed to migrate legally

279
00:11:49,473 --> 00:11:53,010
they wouldn't have to place their lives
into the hands of people smugglers.

280
00:11:53,034 --> 00:11:54,185
The problems arise

281
00:11:54,209 --> 00:11:56,033
from the criminalization of migration,

282
00:11:56,058 --> 00:11:58,019
just as they do from the criminalization

283
00:11:58,043 --> 00:11:59,194
of sex work itself.

284
00:11:59,218 --> 00:12:00,800
This is a lesson of history.

285
00:12:00,824 --> 00:12:04,470
If you try to prohibit something
that people want or need to do,

286
00:12:04,494 --> 00:12:08,069
whether that's drinking alcohol
or crossing borders

287
00:12:08,093 --> 00:12:09,382
or getting an abortion

288
00:12:09,406 --> 00:12:10,766
or selling sex,

289
00:12:11,371 --> 00:12:13,371
you create more problems than you solve.

290
00:12:13,395 --> 00:12:15,184
Prohibition barely makes a difference

291
00:12:15,208 --> 00:12:17,638
to the amount of people
actually doing those things.

292
00:12:17,672 --> 00:12:19,143
But it makes a huge difference

293
00:12:19,177 --> 00:12:22,096
as to whether or not
they're safe when they do them.

294
00:12:22,591 --> 00:12:24,890
Why else might people support prohibition?

295
00:12:25,787 --> 00:12:29,153
As a feminist, I know
that the sex industry is a site

296
00:12:29,177 --> 00:12:32,057
of deeply entrenched social inequality.

297
00:12:32,081 --> 00:12:35,133
It's a fact that most buyers of sex
are men with money,

298
00:12:35,157 --> 00:12:37,448
and most sellers are women without.

299
00:12:37,972 --> 00:12:40,272
You can agree with all that -- I do --

300
00:12:40,891 --> 00:12:43,602
and still think prohibition
is a terrible policy.

301
00:12:44,283 --> 00:12:46,421
In a better, more equal world,

302
00:12:46,445 --> 00:12:50,073
maybe there would be far fewer
people selling sex to survive,

303
00:12:50,097 --> 00:12:53,708
but you can't simply legislate
a better world into existence.

304
00:12:53,732 --> 00:12:56,218
If someone needs to sell sex
because they're poor

305
00:12:56,242 --> 00:12:57,684
or because they're homeless

306
00:12:57,708 --> 00:13:00,850
or because they're undocumented
and they can't find legal work,

307
00:13:00,874 --> 00:13:04,429
taking away that option
doesn't make them any less poor

308
00:13:04,453 --> 00:13:06,076
or house them

309
00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:08,053
or change their immigration status.

310
00:13:08,077 --> 00:13:10,608
People worry that selling
sex is degrading.

311
00:13:11,134 --> 00:13:13,813
Ask yourself: is it more degrading
than going hungry

312
00:13:14,426 --> 00:13:16,353
or seeing your children go hungry?

313
00:13:16,866 --> 00:13:19,870
There's no call to ban rich people
from hiring nannies

314
00:13:19,894 --> 00:13:21,147
or getting manicures,

315
00:13:21,171 --> 00:13:24,797
even though most of the people
doing that labor are poor, migrant women.

316
00:13:24,821 --> 00:13:28,965
It's the fact of poor migrant women
selling sex specifically

317
00:13:28,989 --> 00:13:31,294
that has some feminists uncomfortable.

318
00:13:31,981 --> 00:13:33,134
And I can understand

319
00:13:33,158 --> 00:13:35,883
why the sex industry provokes
strong feelings.

320
00:13:35,907 --> 00:13:38,930
People have all kinds
of complicated feelings

321
00:13:38,954 --> 00:13:40,413
when it comes to sex.

322
00:13:41,046 --> 00:13:44,291
But we can't make policy
on the basis of mere feelings,

323
00:13:44,315 --> 00:13:46,377
especially not over
the heads of the people

324
00:13:46,401 --> 00:13:48,139
actually effected by those policies.

325
00:13:48,163 --> 00:13:50,782
If we get fixated on
the abolition of sex work,

326
00:13:50,806 --> 00:13:53,470
we end up worrying more
about a particular manifestation

327
00:13:53,494 --> 00:13:54,907
of gender inequality,

328
00:13:54,931 --> 00:13:57,253
rather than about the underlying causes.

329
00:13:57,833 --> 00:14:00,264
People get really hung up on the question,

330
00:14:00,288 --> 00:14:02,756
"Well, would you want
your daughter doing it?"

331
00:14:02,780 --> 00:14:04,290
That's the wrong question.

332
00:14:04,717 --> 00:14:07,385
Instead, imagine she is doing it.

333
00:14:08,042 --> 00:14:09,906
How safe is she at work tonight?

334
00:14:10,655 --> 00:14:12,184
Why isn't she safer?

335
00:14:13,997 --> 00:14:16,918
So we've looked at full criminalization,

336
00:14:16,942 --> 00:14:19,945
partial criminalization,
the Swedish or Nordic Model

337
00:14:19,969 --> 00:14:21,159
and legalization,

338
00:14:21,183 --> 00:14:22,835
and how they all cause harm.

339
00:14:22,859 --> 00:14:25,811
Something I never hear asked is:

340
00:14:26,339 --> 00:14:28,009
"What do sex workers want?"

341
00:14:29,073 --> 00:14:31,741
After all, we're the ones
most affected by these laws.

342
00:14:32,615 --> 00:14:35,495
New Zealand decriminalized
sex work in 2003.

343
00:14:36,032 --> 00:14:37,933
It's crucial to remember

344
00:14:37,957 --> 00:14:41,408
that decriminalization and legalization
are not the same thing.

345
00:14:41,432 --> 00:14:44,317
Decriminalization means
the removal of laws

346
00:14:44,341 --> 00:14:46,384
that punitively target the sex industry,

347
00:14:46,408 --> 00:14:49,830
instead treating sex work
much like any other kind of work.

348
00:14:49,854 --> 00:14:52,667
In New Zealand, people
can work together for safety,

349
00:14:52,691 --> 00:14:55,444
and employers of sex workers
are accountable to the state.

350
00:14:55,468 --> 00:14:58,151
A sex worker can refuse
to see a client at any time,

351
00:14:58,175 --> 00:14:59,635
for any reason,

352
00:14:59,659 --> 00:15:02,133
and 96 percent of street workers

353
00:15:02,157 --> 00:15:05,298
report that they feel the law
protects their rights.

354
00:15:05,322 --> 00:15:07,416
New Zealand hasn't actually
seen an increase

355
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,551
in the amount of people doing sex work,

356
00:15:09,575 --> 00:15:12,199
but decriminalizing it
has made it a lot safer.

357
00:15:12,774 --> 00:15:14,351
But the lesson from New Zealand

358
00:15:14,375 --> 00:15:16,772
isn't just that its particular
legislation is good,

359
00:15:16,796 --> 00:15:17,947
but that crucially,

360
00:15:17,971 --> 00:15:20,290
it was written in collaboration
with sex workers;

361
00:15:20,314 --> 00:15:22,623
namely, the New Zealand
Prostitutes' Collective.

362
00:15:22,647 --> 00:15:24,976
When it came to making sex work safer,

363
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,189
they were ready to hear it straight
from sex workers themselves.

364
00:15:28,751 --> 00:15:29,901
Here in the UK,

365
00:15:29,925 --> 00:15:33,343
I'm part of sex worker-led groups
like the Sex Worker Open University

366
00:15:33,367 --> 00:15:35,462
and the English Collective of Prostitutes.

367
00:15:35,486 --> 00:15:37,281
And we form part of a global movement

368
00:15:37,305 --> 00:15:40,765
demanding decriminalization
and self-determination.

369
00:15:41,153 --> 00:15:43,893
The universal symbol of our movement
is the red umbrella.

370
00:15:44,517 --> 00:15:47,618
We're supported in our demands
by global bodies like UNAIDS,

371
00:15:47,642 --> 00:15:49,242
the World Health Organization

372
00:15:49,266 --> 00:15:50,652
and Amnesty International.

373
00:15:51,024 --> 00:15:52,862
But we need more allies.

374
00:15:53,281 --> 00:15:55,617
If you care about gender equality

375
00:15:55,641 --> 00:15:58,437
or poverty or migration or public health,

376
00:15:58,461 --> 00:16:00,965
then sex worker rights matter to you.

377
00:16:01,455 --> 00:16:03,478
Make space for us in your movements.

378
00:16:03,502 --> 00:16:06,738
That means not only listening
to sex workers when we speak

379
00:16:06,762 --> 00:16:08,763
but amplifying our voices.

380
00:16:09,319 --> 00:16:11,440
Resist those who silence us,

381
00:16:11,464 --> 00:16:14,643
those who say that a prostitute
is either too victimized,

382
00:16:14,667 --> 00:16:17,313
too damaged to know
what's best for herself,

383
00:16:17,337 --> 00:16:19,073
or else too privileged

384
00:16:19,097 --> 00:16:21,285
and too removed from real hardship,

385
00:16:21,309 --> 00:16:24,689
not representative of the millions
of voiceless victims.

386
00:16:25,809 --> 00:16:30,612
This distinction between victim
and empowered is imaginary.

387
00:16:30,636 --> 00:16:33,089
It exists purely to discredit sex workers

388
00:16:33,113 --> 00:16:35,056
and make it easy to ignore us.

389
00:16:35,919 --> 00:16:38,111
No doubt many of you work for a living.

390
00:16:38,660 --> 00:16:40,381
Well, sex work is work, too.

391
00:16:40,977 --> 00:16:42,133
Just like you,

392
00:16:42,157 --> 00:16:43,763
some of us like our jobs,

393
00:16:43,787 --> 00:16:45,188
some of us hate them.

394
00:16:45,870 --> 00:16:48,513
Ultimately, most of us
have mixed feelings.

395
00:16:49,338 --> 00:16:51,744
But how we feel about our work

396
00:16:52,666 --> 00:16:53,840
isn't the point.

397
00:16:54,584 --> 00:16:57,602
And how others feel
about our work certainly isn't.

398
00:16:58,473 --> 00:17:01,221
What's important is that we have
the right to work safely

399
00:17:01,245 --> 00:17:02,553
and on our own terms.

400
00:17:02,577 --> 00:17:04,452
Sex workers are real people.

401
00:17:04,923 --> 00:17:07,103
We've had complicated experiences

402
00:17:07,755 --> 00:17:10,810
and complicated responses
to those experiences.

403
00:17:11,751 --> 00:17:14,527
But our demands are not complicated.

404
00:17:14,550 --> 00:17:17,348
You can ask expensive
escorts in New York City,

405
00:17:17,372 --> 00:17:20,310
brothel workers in Cambodia,
street workers in South Africa

406
00:17:20,334 --> 00:17:23,453
and every girl on the roster
at my old job in Soho,

407
00:17:23,477 --> 00:17:25,817
and they will all tell you the same thing.

408
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,082
You can speak to millions of sex workers

409
00:17:28,106 --> 00:17:30,563
and countless sex work-led organizations.

410
00:17:30,587 --> 00:17:34,557
We want full decriminalization
and labor rights as workers.

411
00:17:35,085 --> 00:17:37,401
I'm just one sex worker
on the stage today,

412
00:17:37,425 --> 00:17:39,995
but I'm bringing a message
from all over the world.

413
00:17:40,019 --> 00:17:41,187
Thank you.

414
00:17:41,211 --> 00:17:47,584
(Applause)