The secret to desire in a long-term relationship
-
0:02 - 0:05So, why does good sex so often fade,
-
0:05 - 0:08even for couples who continue
to love each other as much as ever? -
0:10 - 0:13And why does good intimacy
not guarantee good sex, -
0:13 - 0:14contrary to popular belief?
-
0:16 - 0:17Or, the next question would be,
-
0:17 - 0:19can we want what we already have?
-
0:20 - 0:22That's the million-dollar question, right?
-
0:23 - 0:24And why is the forbidden so erotic?
-
0:24 - 0:28What is it about transgression
that makes desire so potent? -
0:29 - 0:30And why does sex make babies,
-
0:30 - 0:33and babies spell erotic
disaster in couples? -
0:33 - 0:34(Laughter)
-
0:34 - 0:37It's kind of the fatal
erotic blow, isn't it? -
0:37 - 0:39And when you love, how does it feel?
-
0:39 - 0:42And when you desire, how is it different?
-
0:43 - 0:44These are some of the questions
-
0:44 - 0:50that are at the center of my exploration
on the nature of erotic desire -
0:50 - 0:53and its concomitant
dilemmas in modern love. -
0:54 - 0:55So I travel the globe,
-
0:55 - 1:00and what I'm noticing is that everywhere
where romanticism has entered, -
1:00 - 1:03there seems to be a crisis of desire.
-
1:04 - 1:08A crisis of desire,
as in owning the wanting -- -
1:08 - 1:11desire as an expression
of our individuality, -
1:11 - 1:15of our free choice,
of our preferences, of our identity -- -
1:15 - 1:18desire that has become a central concept
-
1:18 - 1:22as part of modern love
and individualistic societies. -
1:22 - 1:25You know, this is the first time
in the history of humankind -
1:25 - 1:31where we are trying to experience
sexuality in the long term -
1:31 - 1:35not because we want 14 children,
-
1:35 - 1:39for which we need to have even more
because many of them won't make it, -
1:39 - 1:43and not because it is exclusively
a woman's marital duty. -
1:43 - 1:48This is the first time
that we want sex over time -
1:48 - 1:51about pleasure and connection
that is rooted in desire. -
1:52 - 1:56So what sustains desire,
and why is it so difficult? -
1:56 - 2:01And at the heart of sustaining
desire in a committed relationship, -
2:01 - 2:07I think, is the reconciliation
of two fundamental human needs. -
2:07 - 2:12On the one hand, our need
for security, for predictability, -
2:12 - 2:16for safety, for dependability,
-
2:16 - 2:19for reliability, for permanence.
-
2:19 - 2:22All these anchoring,
grounding experiences of our lives -
2:22 - 2:24that we call home.
-
2:24 - 2:28But we also have an equally
strong need -- men and women -- -
2:28 - 2:31for adventure, for novelty,
-
2:31 - 2:34for mystery, for risk, for danger,
-
2:34 - 2:37for the unknown,
for the unexpected, surprise -- -
2:37 - 2:39you get the gist.
-
2:39 - 2:41For journey, for travel.
-
2:41 - 2:45So reconciling our need for security
and our need for adventure -
2:45 - 2:46into one relationship,
-
2:46 - 2:49or what we today like to call
a passionate marriage, -
2:49 - 2:52used to be a contradiction in terms.
-
2:52 - 2:55Marriage was an economic institution
-
2:55 - 2:58in which you were
given a partnership for life -
2:58 - 3:01in terms of children and social status
-
3:01 - 3:04and succession and companionship.
-
3:04 - 3:08But now we want our partner
to still give us all these things, -
3:08 - 3:10but in addition I want you
to be my best friend -
3:10 - 3:14and my trusted confidant
and my passionate lover to boot, -
3:14 - 3:15and we live twice as long.
-
3:15 - 3:18(Laughter)
-
3:18 - 3:22So we come to one person,
and we basically are asking them -
3:22 - 3:25to give us what once
an entire village used to provide. -
3:26 - 3:28Give me belonging, give me identity,
-
3:28 - 3:29give me continuity,
-
3:29 - 3:33but give me transcendence
and mystery and awe all in one. -
3:34 - 3:35Give me comfort, give me edge.
-
3:35 - 3:37Give me novelty, give me familiarity.
-
3:37 - 3:39Give me predictability, give me surprise.
-
3:39 - 3:41And we think it's a given,
-
3:41 - 3:43and toys and lingerie
are going to save us with that. -
3:43 - 3:45(Laughter)
-
3:45 - 3:49(Applause)
-
3:49 - 3:53So now we get to the existential
reality of the story, right? -
3:53 - 3:57Because I think, in some way --
-
3:57 - 3:59and I'll come back to that --
-
3:59 - 4:02but the crisis of desire
is often a crisis of the imagination. -
4:02 - 4:06So why does good sex so often fade?
-
4:06 - 4:08What is the relationship
between love and desire? -
4:08 - 4:11How do they relate,
and how do they conflict? -
4:12 - 4:14Because therein lies
the mystery of eroticism. -
4:15 - 4:19So if there is a verb, for me,
that comes with love, it's "to have." -
4:19 - 4:22And if there is a verb that comes
with desire, it is "to want." -
4:23 - 4:27In love, we want to have,
we want to know the beloved. -
4:27 - 4:30We want to minimize the distance.
-
4:30 - 4:32We want to contract that gap.
-
4:32 - 4:34We want to neutralize the tensions.
-
4:34 - 4:35We want closeness.
-
4:36 - 4:37But in desire,
-
4:37 - 4:41we tend to not really want to go back
to the places we've already gone. -
4:41 - 4:44Forgone conclusion
does not keep our interest. -
4:45 - 4:47In desire, we want an Other,
-
4:47 - 4:50somebody on the other side
that we can go visit, -
4:50 - 4:52that we can go spend some time with,
-
4:52 - 4:55that we can go see what goes on
in their red-light district. -
4:56 - 4:57You know?
-
4:57 - 4:59In desire, we want a bridge to cross.
-
4:59 - 5:02Or in other words,
I sometimes say, fire needs air. -
5:03 - 5:05Desire needs space.
-
5:05 - 5:08And when it's said like that,
it's often quite abstract. -
5:08 - 5:10But then I took a question with me.
-
5:10 - 5:13And I've gone to more than 20 countries
in the last few years -
5:13 - 5:15with "Mating in Captivity,"
and I asked people, -
5:15 - 5:19when do you find yourself
most drawn to your partner? -
5:19 - 5:21Not attracted sexually,
per Se, but most drawn. -
5:22 - 5:27And across culture, across religion,
and across gender -- except for one -- -
5:27 - 5:30there are a few answers
that just keep coming back. -
5:31 - 5:33So the first group is:
-
5:33 - 5:38I am most drawn to my partner
when she is away, -
5:38 - 5:41when we are apart, when we reunite.
-
5:42 - 5:45Basically, when I get back in touch
-
5:46 - 5:49with my ability to imagine myself
with my partner, -
5:49 - 5:52when my imagination comes
back in the picture, -
5:52 - 5:57and when I can root it
in absence and in longing, -
5:57 - 5:59which is a major component of desire.
-
6:00 - 6:03But then the second group
is even more interesting. -
6:03 - 6:05I am most drawn to my partner
-
6:05 - 6:07when I see him in the studio,
-
6:07 - 6:09when she is onstage,
-
6:09 - 6:10when he is in his element,
-
6:10 - 6:13when she's doing something
she's passionate about, -
6:13 - 6:16when I see him at a party
and other people are really drawn to him, -
6:16 - 6:18when I see her hold court.
-
6:19 - 6:23Basically, when I look at my partner
radiant and confident. -
6:23 - 6:26Probably the biggest
turn-on across the board. -
6:26 - 6:29Radiant, as in self-sustaining.
-
6:29 - 6:32I look at this person --
by the way, in desire -
6:32 - 6:35people rarely talk about it,
when we are blended into one, -
6:35 - 6:36five centimeters from each other.
-
6:36 - 6:38I don't know in inches how much that is.
-
6:38 - 6:41But it's also not when the other person
is that far apart -
6:41 - 6:43that you no longer see them.
-
6:43 - 6:47It's when I'm looking at my partner
from a comfortable distance, -
6:47 - 6:51where this person that is already
so familiar, so known, -
6:51 - 6:56is momentarily once again
somewhat mysterious, somewhat elusive. -
6:56 - 7:01And in this space between me
and the other lies the erotic élan, -
7:01 - 7:03lies that movement toward the other.
-
7:04 - 7:06Because sometimes, as Proust says,
-
7:06 - 7:08mystery is not
about traveling to new places, -
7:08 - 7:11but it's about looking with new eyes.
-
7:11 - 7:15And so, when I see my partner
on his own or her own, -
7:15 - 7:17doing something
in which they are enveloped, -
7:17 - 7:22I look at this person and I momentarily
get a shift in perception, -
7:22 - 7:26and I stay open to the mysteries
that are living right next to me. -
7:27 - 7:32And then, more importantly,
in this description about the other -
7:32 - 7:34or myself -- it's the same --
-
7:34 - 7:38what is most interesting
is that there is no neediness in desire. -
7:38 - 7:40Nobody needs anybody.
-
7:40 - 7:43There is no caretaking in desire.
-
7:43 - 7:45Caretaking is mightily loving.
-
7:45 - 7:46It's a powerful anti-aphrodisiac.
-
7:46 - 7:47(Laughter)
-
7:47 - 7:50I have yet to see somebody
who is so turned on -
7:50 - 7:51by somebody who needs them.
-
7:52 - 7:53Wanting them is one thing.
-
7:53 - 7:55Needing them is a shot down
-
7:55 - 7:57and women have known that forever,
-
7:57 - 7:59because anything
that will bring up parenthood -
8:00 - 8:02will usually decrease the erotic charge.
-
8:02 - 8:03(Laughter)
-
8:03 - 8:05For good reasons, right?
-
8:05 - 8:08And then the third group
of answers usually would be: -
8:08 - 8:13when I'm surprised,
when we laugh together, -
8:13 - 8:15as somebody said to me
in the office today, -
8:15 - 8:17when he's in his tux, so I said, you know,
-
8:17 - 8:20it's either the tux or the cowboy boots.
-
8:20 - 8:23But basically it's when there is novelty.
-
8:23 - 8:26But novelty isn't about new positions.
-
8:26 - 8:28It isn't a repertoire of techniques.
-
8:28 - 8:31Novelty is, what parts
of you do you bring out? -
8:31 - 8:34What parts of you are just being seen?
-
8:34 - 8:38Because in some way one could say
sex isn't something you do, eh? -
8:38 - 8:39Sex is a place you go.
-
8:40 - 8:41It's a space you enter
-
8:41 - 8:45inside yourself
and with another, or others. -
8:45 - 8:47So where do you go in sex?
-
8:47 - 8:50What parts of you do you connect to?
-
8:50 - 8:52What do you seek to express there?
-
8:52 - 8:55Is it a place for transcendence
and spiritual union? -
8:55 - 8:59Is it a place for naughtiness
and is it a place to be safely aggressive? -
8:59 - 9:02Is it a place where you
can finally surrender -
9:02 - 9:05and not have to take
responsibility for everything? -
9:05 - 9:08Is it a place where you can
express your infantile wishes? -
9:08 - 9:10What comes out there? It's a language.
-
9:10 - 9:12It isn't just a behavior.
-
9:13 - 9:15And it's the poetic of that language
that I'm interested in, -
9:15 - 9:19which is why I began to explore
this concept of erotic intelligence. -
9:20 - 9:21You know, animals have sex.
-
9:22 - 9:25It's the pivot, it's biology,
it's the natural instinct. -
9:25 - 9:28We are the only ones
who have an erotic life, -
9:28 - 9:34which means that it's sexuality
transformed by the human imagination. -
9:34 - 9:38We are the only ones
who can make love for hours, -
9:38 - 9:41have a blissful time, multiple orgasms,
-
9:41 - 9:44and touch nobody,
just because we can imagine it. -
9:45 - 9:47We can hint at it.
We don't even have to do it. -
9:47 - 9:51We can experience that powerful
thing called anticipation, -
9:51 - 9:53which is a mortar to desire.
-
9:53 - 9:57The ability to imagine it,
as if it's happening, -
9:57 - 9:59to experience it as if it's happening,
-
9:59 - 10:01while nothing is happening
-
10:01 - 10:03and everything is happening,
at the same time. -
10:04 - 10:06So when I began to think about eroticism,
-
10:06 - 10:09I began to think about the poetics of sex.
-
10:09 - 10:12And if I look at it as an intelligence,
-
10:12 - 10:14then it's something that you cultivate.
-
10:14 - 10:16What are the ingredients?
-
10:16 - 10:18Imagination, playfulness,
-
10:18 - 10:21novelty, curiosity, mystery.
-
10:22 - 10:27But the central agent is really
that piece called the imagination. -
10:27 - 10:30But more importantly,
for me to begin to understand -
10:30 - 10:32who are the couples
who have an erotic spark, -
10:32 - 10:34what sustains desire,
-
10:34 - 10:38I had to go back
to the original definition of eroticism, -
10:38 - 10:39the mystical definition,
-
10:39 - 10:42and I went through it
through a bifurcation -
10:42 - 10:44by looking, actually, at trauma,
-
10:44 - 10:45which is the other side.
-
10:45 - 10:47And I looked at it,
-
10:47 - 10:49looking at the community
that I had grown up in, -
10:49 - 10:53which was a community in Belgium,
all Holocaust survivors, -
10:53 - 10:55and in my community,
there were two groups: -
10:55 - 10:59those who didn't die,
and those who came back to life. -
10:59 - 11:03And those who didn't die lived
often very tethered to the ground, -
11:03 - 11:06could not experience
pleasure, could not trust, -
11:06 - 11:10because when you're vigilant,
worried, anxious, and insecure, -
11:10 - 11:14you can't lift your head
to go and take off in space -
11:14 - 11:16and be playful and safe and imaginative.
-
11:17 - 11:19Those who came back to life
-
11:19 - 11:22were those who understood
the erotic as an antidote to death. -
11:22 - 11:25They knew how to keep themselves alive.
-
11:26 - 11:27And when I began to listen
-
11:28 - 11:30to the sexlessness
of the couples that I work with, -
11:30 - 11:33I sometimes would hear people
say, "I want more sex," -
11:33 - 11:36but generally, people want better sex,
-
11:36 - 11:39and better is to reconnect
with that quality of aliveness, -
11:39 - 11:42of vibrancy, of renewal, of vitality,
-
11:42 - 11:43of Eros, of energy
-
11:43 - 11:45that sex used to afford them,
-
11:45 - 11:47or that they've hoped
it would afford them. -
11:48 - 11:50And so I began to ask
a different question. -
11:51 - 11:55"I shut myself off when ..."
began to be the question. -
11:55 - 11:57"I turn off my desires when ..."
-
11:57 - 11:59Which is not the same question as,
-
11:59 - 12:02"What turns me off is ..."
and "You turn me off when ..." -
12:03 - 12:06And people began to say,
"I turn myself off when -
12:06 - 12:09I feel dead inside,
when I don't like my body, -
12:09 - 12:10when I feel old,
-
12:10 - 12:12when I haven't had time for myself,
-
12:12 - 12:15when I haven't had a chance
to even check in with you, -
12:15 - 12:16when I don't perform well at work,
-
12:16 - 12:18when I feel low self esteem,
-
12:18 - 12:20when I don't have a sense of self-worth,
-
12:20 - 12:23when I don't feel like I have
a right to want, to take, -
12:23 - 12:24to receive pleasure."
-
12:25 - 12:27And then I began to ask
the reverse question. -
12:27 - 12:29"I turn myself on when ..."
-
12:29 - 12:32Because most of the time,
people like to ask the question, -
12:32 - 12:34"You turn me on, what turns me on,"
-
12:34 - 12:36and I'm out of the question, you know?
-
12:36 - 12:38Now, if you are dead inside,
-
12:38 - 12:41the other person can do
a lot of things for Valentine's. -
12:41 - 12:44It won't make a dent.
There is nobody at the reception desk. -
12:44 - 12:45(Laughter)
-
12:45 - 12:47So I turn myself on when,
-
12:47 - 12:51I turn on my desires, I wake up when ...
-
12:51 - 12:56Now, in this paradox
between love and desire, -
12:56 - 12:58what seems to be so puzzling
-
12:58 - 13:02is that the very ingredients
that nurture love -- -
13:02 - 13:05mutuality, reciprocity,
-
13:05 - 13:08protection, worry,
responsibility for the other -- -
13:08 - 13:12are sometimes the very ingredients
that stifle desire. -
13:12 - 13:16Because desire comes
with a host of feelings -
13:17 - 13:20that are not always
such favorites of love: -
13:20 - 13:22jealousy, possessiveness,
-
13:22 - 13:25aggression, power, dominance,
-
13:25 - 13:27naughtiness, mischief.
-
13:27 - 13:31Basically most of us will get turned on
at night by the very same things -
13:31 - 13:33that we will demonstrate
against during the day. -
13:34 - 13:37You know, the erotic mind
is not very politically correct. -
13:37 - 13:40If everybody was fantasizing
on a bed of roses, -
13:40 - 13:42we wouldn't be having such
interesting talks about this. -
13:42 - 13:43(Laughter)
-
13:43 - 13:49But no, in our mind up there
are a host of things going on -
13:49 - 13:52that we don't always know
how to bring to the person that we love, -
13:52 - 13:55because we think love
comes with selflessness -
13:55 - 13:58and in fact desire comes
with a certain amount of selfishness -
13:58 - 14:00in the best sense of the word:
-
14:00 - 14:05the ability to stay connected
to one's self in the presence of another. -
14:05 - 14:08So I want to draw
that little image for you, -
14:08 - 14:11because this need to reconcile
these two sets of needs, -
14:11 - 14:13we are born with that.
-
14:13 - 14:16Our need for connection,
our need for separateness, -
14:16 - 14:18or our need for security and adventure,
-
14:18 - 14:21or our need for togetherness
and for autonomy, -
14:21 - 14:24and if you think about the little kid
who sits on your lap -
14:24 - 14:28and who is cozily nested here
and very secure and comfortable, -
14:28 - 14:32and at some point all of us
need to go out into the world -
14:32 - 14:34to discover and to explore.
-
14:34 - 14:36That's the beginning of desire,
-
14:36 - 14:40that exploratory need,
curiosity, discovery. -
14:41 - 14:45And then at some point they turn
around and they look at you. -
14:45 - 14:47And if you tell them,
-
14:47 - 14:49"Hey kiddo, the world's a great place.
-
14:49 - 14:51Go for it. There's so much fun out there,"
-
14:51 - 14:53then they can turn away
and they can experience -
14:53 - 14:56connection and separateness
at the same time. -
14:56 - 14:59They can go off in their imagination,
off in their body, -
14:59 - 15:01off in their playfulness,
-
15:01 - 15:04all the while knowing that there's
somebody when they come back. -
15:05 - 15:07But if on this side
there is somebody who says, -
15:07 - 15:11"I'm worried. I'm anxious. I'm depressed.
-
15:11 - 15:13My partner hasn't taken care
of me in so long. -
15:13 - 15:14What's so good out there?
-
15:14 - 15:17Don't we have everything
you need together, you and I?" -
15:17 - 15:20then there are a few little reactions
-
15:20 - 15:23that all of us can pretty much recognize.
-
15:23 - 15:26Some of us will come back,
-
15:26 - 15:28came back a long time ago,
-
15:28 - 15:30and that little child who comes back
-
15:30 - 15:33is the child who will forgo
a part of himself -
15:33 - 15:35in order not to lose the other.
-
15:35 - 15:39I will lose my freedom
in order not to lose connection. -
15:39 - 15:42And I will learn to love in a certain way
-
15:42 - 15:46that will become burdened with extra worry
-
15:46 - 15:49and extra responsibility
and extra protection, -
15:49 - 15:52and I won't know how to leave you
-
15:52 - 15:55in order to go play,
in order to go experience pleasure, -
15:55 - 15:59in order to discover,
to enter inside myself. -
15:59 - 16:01Translate this into adult language.
-
16:02 - 16:03It starts very young.
-
16:03 - 16:06It continues into our sex lives
up to the end. -
16:07 - 16:09Child number two comes back
-
16:09 - 16:12but looks like that
over their shoulder all the time. -
16:12 - 16:14"Are you going to be there?
-
16:14 - 16:16Are you going to curse me, scold me?
-
16:16 - 16:18Are you going to be angry with me?"
-
16:18 - 16:22And they may be gone,
but they're never really away. -
16:22 - 16:24And those are often the people
that will tell you, -
16:24 - 16:26"In the beginning, it was super hot."
-
16:26 - 16:28Because in the beginning,
-
16:28 - 16:32the growing intimacy wasn't yet so strong
-
16:32 - 16:35that it actually led
to the decrease of desire. -
16:35 - 16:39The more connected I became,
the more responsible I felt, -
16:39 - 16:42the less I was able to let go
in your presence. -
16:42 - 16:44The third child doesn't really come back.
-
16:44 - 16:48So what happens,
if you want to sustain desire, -
16:48 - 16:50it's that real dialectic piece.
-
16:50 - 16:54On the one hand you want the security
in order to be able to go. -
16:54 - 16:57On the other hand if you can't go,
you can't have pleasure, -
16:57 - 17:00you can't culminate,
you don't have an orgasm, -
17:00 - 17:03you don't get excited
because you spend your time -
17:03 - 17:06in the body and the head
of the other and not in your own. -
17:06 - 17:12So in this dilemma about reconciling
these two sets of fundamental needs, -
17:12 - 17:17there are a few things that I've come
to understand erotic couples do. -
17:17 - 17:20One, they have a lot of sexual privacy.
-
17:20 - 17:22They understand
that there is an erotic space -
17:22 - 17:24that belongs to each of them.
-
17:24 - 17:27They also understand
that foreplay is not something you do -
17:27 - 17:29five minutes before the real thing.
-
17:29 - 17:33Foreplay pretty much starts
at the end of the previous orgasm. -
17:33 - 17:37They also understand
that an erotic space isn't about, -
17:37 - 17:38you begin to stroke the other.
-
17:38 - 17:42It's about you create a space
where you leave Management Inc., -
17:42 - 17:44maybe where you leave the Agile program --
-
17:44 - 17:47(Laughter)
-
17:47 - 17:51And you actually just enter that place
where you stop being the good citizen -
17:51 - 17:54who is taking care of things
and being responsible. -
17:54 - 17:57Responsibility and desire just butt heads.
-
17:57 - 18:00They don't really do well together.
-
18:00 - 18:04Erotic couples also understand
that passion waxes and wanes. -
18:04 - 18:06It's pretty much like the moon.
-
18:06 - 18:08It has intermittent eclipses.
-
18:08 - 18:10But what they know
is they know how to resurrect it. -
18:10 - 18:12They know how to bring it back.
-
18:12 - 18:14And they know how to bring it back
-
18:14 - 18:16because they have
demystified one big myth, -
18:16 - 18:18which is the myth of spontaneity,
-
18:19 - 18:21which is that it's just going
to fall from heaven -
18:21 - 18:24while you're folding the laundry
like a deus ex machina, -
18:24 - 18:26and in fact they understood
-
18:26 - 18:31that whatever is going to just happen
in a long-term relationship, already has. -
18:31 - 18:34Committed sex is premeditated sex.
-
18:34 - 18:36It's willful. It's intentional.
-
18:37 - 18:39It's focus and presence.
-
18:40 - 18:41Merry Valentine's.
-
18:41 - 18:44(Applause)
- Title:
- The secret to desire in a long-term relationship
- Speaker:
- Esther Perel
- Description:
-
In long-term relationships, we often expect our beloved to be both best friend and erotic partner. But as Esther Perel argues, good and committed sex draws on two conflicting needs: our need for security and our need for surprise. So how do you sustain desire? With wit and eloquence, Perel lets us in on the mystery of erotic intelligence.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 19:10
Camille Martínez edited English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Krystian Aparta edited English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Krystian Aparta edited English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Krystian Aparta commented on English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Krystian Aparta edited English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Thu-Huong Ha edited English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | ||
Thu-Huong Ha approved English subtitles for The secret to desire in a long-term relationship |
Krystian Aparta
The English transcript was updated on 3/19/2015.