Lessons from death row inmates
-
0:01 - 0:03Two weeks ago,
-
0:03 - 0:08I was sitting at the kitchen table
with my wife Katya, -
0:08 - 0:12and we were talking about
what I was going to talk about today. -
0:13 - 0:16We have an 11-year-old son;
his name is Lincoln. -
0:16 - 0:19He was sitting at the same table,
doing his math homework. -
0:20 - 0:24And during a pause
in my conversation with Katya, -
0:24 - 0:26I looked over at Lincoln
-
0:26 - 0:29and I was suddenly thunderstruck
-
0:30 - 0:32by a recollection of a client of mine.
-
0:33 - 0:36My client was a guy named Will.
-
0:36 - 0:38He was from North Texas.
-
0:39 - 0:41He never knew his father very well,
-
0:41 - 0:45because his father left his mom
while she was pregnant with him. -
0:47 - 0:51And so, he was destined
to be raised by a single mom, -
0:51 - 0:52which might have been all right
-
0:52 - 0:57except that this particular single mom
was a paranoid schizophrenic, -
0:58 - 1:01and when Will was five years old,
-
1:01 - 1:03she tried to kill him
with a butcher knife. -
1:04 - 1:09She was taken away by authorities
and placed in a psychiatric hospital, -
1:09 - 1:13and so for the next several years
Will lived with his older brother, -
1:13 - 1:16until he committed suicide
by shooting himself through the heart. -
1:17 - 1:22And after that Will bounced around
from one family member to another, -
1:22 - 1:26until, by the time he was nine years old,
he was essentially living on his own. -
1:27 - 1:30That morning that I was sitting
with Katya and Lincoln, -
1:30 - 1:36I looked at my son, and I realized
that when my client, Will, was his age, -
1:37 - 1:40he'd been living by himself for two years.
-
1:42 - 1:44Will eventually joined a gang
-
1:44 - 1:48and committed a number
of very serious crimes, -
1:48 - 1:51including, most seriously of all,
-
1:52 - 1:53a horrible, tragic murder.
-
1:55 - 2:01And Will was ultimately executed
as punishment for that crime. -
2:03 - 2:08But I don't want to talk today
about the morality of capital punishment. -
2:08 - 2:12I certainly think that my client
shouldn't have been executed, -
2:12 - 2:15but what I would like to do today instead
-
2:15 - 2:20is talk about the death penalty
in a way I've never done before, -
2:20 - 2:24in a way that is
entirely noncontroversial. -
2:26 - 2:27I think that's possible,
-
2:27 - 2:31because there is a corner
of the death penalty debate -- -
2:32 - 2:34maybe the most important corner --
-
2:34 - 2:37where everybody agrees,
-
2:37 - 2:41where the most ardent
death penalty supporters -
2:41 - 2:46and the most vociferous abolitionists
are on exactly the same page. -
2:48 - 2:50That's the corner I want to explore.
-
2:51 - 2:54Before I do that, though,
I want to spend a couple of minutes -
2:54 - 2:58telling you how
a death penalty case unfolds, -
2:58 - 3:00and then I want to tell you two lessons
-
3:00 - 3:05that I have learned over the last 20 years
as a death penalty lawyer -
3:05 - 3:09from watching well more
than a hundred cases unfold in this way. -
3:11 - 3:15You can think of a death penalty case
as a story that has four chapters. -
3:16 - 3:20The first chapter of every case
is exactly the same, and it is tragic. -
3:21 - 3:25It begins with the murder
of an innocent human being, -
3:25 - 3:27and it's followed by a trial
-
3:27 - 3:30where the murderer
is convicted and sent to death row, -
3:30 - 3:33and that death sentence is ultimately
upheld by the state appellate court. -
3:35 - 3:38The second chapter consists
of a complicated legal proceeding -
3:38 - 3:40known as a state habeas corpus appeal.
-
3:41 - 3:44The third chapter is an even
more complicated legal proceeding -
3:44 - 3:47known as a federal
habeas corpus proceeding. -
3:47 - 3:50And the fourth chapter is one
where a variety of things can happen. -
3:51 - 3:53The lawyers might file
a clemency petition, -
3:53 - 3:56they might initiate
even more complex litigation, -
3:56 - 3:58or they might not do anything at all.
-
3:58 - 4:02But that fourth chapter
always ends with an execution. -
4:03 - 4:07When I started representing
death row inmates more than 20 years ago, -
4:07 - 4:10people on death row
did not have a right to a lawyer -
4:10 - 4:13in either the second
or the fourth chapter of this story. -
4:13 - 4:15They were on their own.
-
4:15 - 4:18In fact, it wasn't until the late 1980s
-
4:18 - 4:21that they acquired a right to a lawyer
during the third chapter of the story. -
4:22 - 4:28So what all of these death row inmates
had to do was rely on volunteer lawyers -
4:28 - 4:30to handle their legal proceedings.
-
4:30 - 4:34The problem is that there were
way more guys on death row -
4:34 - 4:35than there were lawyers
-
4:35 - 4:39who had both the interest
and the expertise to work on these cases. -
4:39 - 4:40And so inevitably,
-
4:40 - 4:44lawyers drifted to cases
that were already in chapter four -- -
4:44 - 4:46that makes sense, of course.
-
4:46 - 4:48Those are the cases that are most urgent;
-
4:48 - 4:50those are the guys
who are closest to being executed. -
4:50 - 4:52Some of these lawyers were successful;
-
4:52 - 4:54they managed to get
new trials for their clients. -
4:55 - 4:57Others of them managed
to extend the lives of their clients, -
4:57 - 5:00sometimes by years, sometimes by months.
-
5:00 - 5:03But the one thing that didn't happen
-
5:03 - 5:07was that there was never
a serious and sustained decline -
5:07 - 5:09in the number of annual
executions in Texas. -
5:10 - 5:11In fact, as you can see from this graph,
-
5:11 - 5:15from the time that the Texas
execution apparatus got efficient -
5:15 - 5:17in the mid- to late 1990s,
-
5:17 - 5:19there have only been a couple of years
-
5:19 - 5:22where the number of annual
executions dipped below 20. -
5:23 - 5:25In a typical year in Texas,
-
5:25 - 5:29we're averaging about two people a month.
-
5:29 - 5:33In some years in Texas,
we've executed close to 40 people, -
5:33 - 5:38and this number has never significantly
declined over the last 15 years. -
5:38 - 5:41And yet, at the same time
that we continue to execute -
5:42 - 5:44about the same number
of people every year, -
5:44 - 5:48the number of people who we're
sentencing to death on an annual basis -
5:48 - 5:49has dropped rather steeply.
-
5:50 - 5:52So we have this paradox,
-
5:52 - 5:56which is that the number
of annual executions has remained high -
5:56 - 6:00but the number of new
death sentences has gone down. -
6:00 - 6:02Why is that?
-
6:02 - 6:04It can't be attributed
to a decline in the murder rate, -
6:04 - 6:08because the murder
rate has not declined nearly so steeply -
6:08 - 6:11as the red line
on that graph has gone down. -
6:11 - 6:13What has happened instead
-
6:13 - 6:18is that juries have started to sentence
more and more people to prison -
6:18 - 6:21for the rest of their lives
without the possibility of parole, -
6:21 - 6:24rather than sending them
to the execution chamber. -
6:25 - 6:27Why has that happened?
-
6:27 - 6:30It hasn't happened
because of a dissolution -
6:30 - 6:32of popular support for the death penalty.
-
6:32 - 6:35Death penalty opponents
take great solace in the fact -
6:35 - 6:39that death penalty support in Texas
is at an all-time low. -
6:39 - 6:41Do you know what all-time low
in Texas means? -
6:41 - 6:44It means that it's in the low 60 percent.
-
6:44 - 6:46Now, that's really good
compared to the mid-1980s, -
6:46 - 6:49when it was in excess of 80 percent,
-
6:49 - 6:52but we can't explain
the decline in death sentences -
6:52 - 6:55and the affinity for life
without the possibility of parole -
6:55 - 6:58by an erosion of support
for the death penalty, -
6:58 - 7:00because people still support
the death penalty. -
7:00 - 7:02What's happened to cause this phenomenon?
-
7:03 - 7:08What's happened is that lawyers
who represent death row inmates -
7:08 - 7:12have shifted their focus
to earlier and earlier chapters -
7:12 - 7:13of the death penalty story.
-
7:14 - 7:17So 25 years ago,
they focused on chapter four. -
7:17 - 7:19And they went from
chapter four 25 years ago -
7:19 - 7:22to chapter three in the late 1980s.
-
7:22 - 7:25And they went from chapter three
in the late 1980s -
7:25 - 7:27to chapter two in the mid-1990s.
-
7:27 - 7:29And beginning in the mid- to late 1990s,
-
7:29 - 7:32they began to focus
on chapter one of the story. -
7:32 - 7:35Now, you might think
that this decline in death sentences -
7:35 - 7:37and the increase
in the number of life sentences -
7:38 - 7:39is a good thing or a bad thing.
-
7:39 - 7:42I don't want to have a conversation
about that today. -
7:42 - 7:45All that I want to tell you
is that the reason that this has happened -
7:45 - 7:48is because death penalty lawyers
have understood -
7:48 - 7:51that the earlier you intervene in a case,
-
7:51 - 7:54the greater the likelihood that
you're going to save your client's life. -
7:55 - 7:56That's the first thing I've learned.
-
7:56 - 7:59Here's the second thing I learned:
-
7:59 - 8:02My client Will was
not the exception to the rule; -
8:03 - 8:05he was the rule.
-
8:06 - 8:10I sometimes say, if you tell me
the name of a death row inmate -- -
8:10 - 8:11doesn't matter what state he's in,
-
8:11 - 8:14doesn't matter
if I've ever met him before -- -
8:14 - 8:15I'll write his biography for you.
-
8:16 - 8:18And eight out of 10 times,
-
8:18 - 8:22the details of that biography
will be more or less accurate. -
8:23 - 8:27And the reason for that is that 80 percent
of the people on death row -
8:27 - 8:31are people who came from the same sort
of dysfunctional family that Will did. -
8:31 - 8:33Eighty percent of the people on death row
-
8:33 - 8:37are people who had exposure
to the juvenile justice system. -
8:38 - 8:40That's the second lesson
that I've learned. -
8:41 - 8:45Now we're right on the cusp of that corner
-
8:45 - 8:47where everybody's going to agree.
-
8:48 - 8:50People in this room might disagree
-
8:50 - 8:53about whether Will
should have been executed, -
8:53 - 8:55but I think everybody would agree
-
8:55 - 8:59that the best possible
version of his story -
8:59 - 9:03would be a story
where no murder ever occurs. -
9:04 - 9:06How do we do that?
-
9:07 - 9:11When our son Lincoln was working
on that math problem two weeks ago, -
9:11 - 9:14it was a big, gnarly problem.
-
9:14 - 9:17And he was learning how,
when you have a big old gnarly problem, -
9:17 - 9:21sometimes the solution
is to slice it into smaller problems. -
9:21 - 9:23That's what we do for most problems --
-
9:23 - 9:25in math, in physics,
even in social policy -- -
9:25 - 9:28we slice them into smaller,
more manageable problems. -
9:28 - 9:32But every once in a while,
as Dwight Eisenhower said, -
9:32 - 9:36the way you solve a problem
is to make it bigger. -
9:38 - 9:40The way we solve this problem
-
9:40 - 9:43is to make the issue
of the death penalty bigger. -
9:44 - 9:46We have to say, all right.
-
9:46 - 9:50We have these four chapters
of a death penalty story, -
9:51 - 9:55but what happens before that story begins?
-
9:56 - 9:59How can we intervene
in the life of a murderer -
9:59 - 10:02before he's a murderer?
-
10:02 - 10:08What options do we have
to nudge that person off of the path -
10:08 - 10:11that is going to lead
to a result that everybody -- -
10:11 - 10:14death penalty supporters
and death penalty opponents -- -
10:14 - 10:17still think is a bad result:
-
10:17 - 10:19the murder of an innocent human being?
-
10:22 - 10:28You know, sometimes people say
that something isn't rocket science. -
10:28 - 10:31And by that, what they mean
is rocket science is really complicated -
10:31 - 10:35and this problem that we're
talking about now is really simple. -
10:35 - 10:36Well that's rocket science;
-
10:36 - 10:41that's the mathematical expression
for the thrust created by a rocket. -
10:42 - 10:46What we're talking about today
is just as complicated. -
10:46 - 10:51What we're talking about today
is also rocket science. -
10:52 - 10:56My client Will and 80 percent
of the people on death row -
10:57 - 11:00had five chapters in their lives
-
11:00 - 11:04that came before the four chapters
of the death penalty story. -
11:04 - 11:08I think of these five chapters
as points of intervention, -
11:08 - 11:09places in their lives
-
11:09 - 11:13when our society
could've intervened in their lives -
11:13 - 11:16and nudged them off of the path
that they were on -
11:16 - 11:19that created a consequence that we all --
-
11:19 - 11:22death penalty supporters
or death penalty opponents -- -
11:22 - 11:23say was a bad result.
-
11:24 - 11:26Now, during each of these five chapters:
-
11:27 - 11:28when his mother was pregnant with him;
-
11:28 - 11:31in his early childhood years;
-
11:31 - 11:32when he was in elementary school;
-
11:32 - 11:35when he was in middle school
and then high school; -
11:35 - 11:37and when he was
in the juvenile justice system -- -
11:37 - 11:39during each of those five chapters,
-
11:39 - 11:42there were a wide variety of things
that society could have done. -
11:42 - 11:43In fact, if we just imagine
-
11:43 - 11:46that there are five
different modes of intervention, -
11:46 - 11:50the way that society could intervene
in each of those five chapters, -
11:50 - 11:52and we could mix and match them
any way we want, -
11:52 - 11:56there are 3,000 -- more than 3,000 --
possible strategies -
11:57 - 11:58that we could embrace
-
11:58 - 12:02in order to nudge kids like Will
off of the path that they're on. -
12:03 - 12:07So I'm not standing here today
with the solution. -
12:07 - 12:11But the fact that we
still have a lot to learn, -
12:12 - 12:15that doesn't mean
that we don't know a lot already. -
12:15 - 12:18We know from experience in other states
-
12:18 - 12:22that there are a wide variety
of modes of intervention -
12:22 - 12:23that we could be using in Texas,
-
12:23 - 12:26and in every other state
that isn't using them, -
12:26 - 12:30in order to prevent a consequence
that we all agree is bad. -
12:30 - 12:32I'll just mention a few.
-
12:33 - 12:37I won't talk today
about reforming the legal system. -
12:37 - 12:38That's probably a topic
-
12:38 - 12:42that is best reserved
for a room full of lawyers and judges. -
12:42 - 12:46Instead, let me talk
about a couple of modes of intervention -
12:46 - 12:48that we can all help accomplish,
-
12:48 - 12:51because they are modes of intervention
that will come about -
12:51 - 12:55when legislators and policymakers,
when taxpayers and citizens, -
12:55 - 12:57agree that that's
what we ought to be doing -
12:57 - 12:59and that's how we ought
to be spending our money. -
12:59 - 13:02We could be providing early childhood care
-
13:02 - 13:06for economically disadvantaged
and otherwise troubled kids, -
13:07 - 13:10and we could be doing it for free.
-
13:10 - 13:13And we could be nudging kids like Will
off of the path that we're on. -
13:14 - 13:17There are other states
that do that, but we don't. -
13:18 - 13:20We could be providing special schools,
-
13:20 - 13:23at both the high school level
and the middle school level, -
13:23 - 13:25but even in K-5,
-
13:25 - 13:28that target economically
and otherwise disadvantaged kids, -
13:28 - 13:33and particularly kids who have had
exposure to the juvenile justice system. -
13:33 - 13:35There are a handful
of states that do that; -
13:35 - 13:36Texas doesn't.
-
13:37 - 13:41There's one other thing we can be doing --
well, there are a bunch of other things -- -
13:41 - 13:43there's one other thing
that I'm going to mention, -
13:43 - 13:47and this is going to be the only
controversial thing that I say today. -
13:47 - 13:50We could be intervening
much more aggressively -
13:50 - 13:53into dangerously dysfunctional homes,
-
13:53 - 13:55and getting kids out of them
-
13:55 - 13:59before their moms pick up butcher knives
and threaten to kill them. -
14:01 - 14:04If we're going to do that,
we need a place to put them. -
14:05 - 14:06Even if we do all of those things,
-
14:06 - 14:08some kids are going
to fall through the cracks -
14:08 - 14:11and they're going to end up
in that last chapter -
14:11 - 14:12before the murder story begins,
-
14:12 - 14:15they're going to end up
in the juvenile justice system. -
14:15 - 14:18And even if that happens,
it's not yet too late. -
14:19 - 14:21There's still time to nudge them,
-
14:21 - 14:25if we think about nudging them
rather than just punishing them. -
14:25 - 14:27There are two professors
in the Northeast -- -
14:28 - 14:29one at Yale and one at Maryland --
-
14:29 - 14:33they set up a school
that is attached to a juvenile prison. -
14:34 - 14:36And the kids are in prison,
but they go to school -
14:36 - 14:39from eight in the morning
until four in the afternoon. -
14:39 - 14:41Now, it was logistically difficult.
-
14:41 - 14:44They had to recruit teachers
who wanted to teach inside a prison, -
14:44 - 14:46they had to establish strict separation
-
14:46 - 14:49between the people who work at the school
and the prison authorities, -
14:49 - 14:50and most dauntingly of all,
-
14:50 - 14:53they needed to invent a new curriculum
because you know what? -
14:53 - 14:56People don't come into and out of prison
on a semester basis. -
14:56 - 14:58(Laughter)
-
14:58 - 15:00But they did all those things.
-
15:01 - 15:03Now, what do all of these things
have in common? -
15:04 - 15:08What all of these things have in common
is that they cost money. -
15:10 - 15:13Some of the people in the room
might be old enough -
15:13 - 15:17to remember the guy
on the old oil filter commercial. -
15:17 - 15:23He used to say, "Well, you can pay me now
or you can pay me later." -
15:24 - 15:27What we're doing
in the death penalty system -
15:29 - 15:31is we're paying later.
-
15:32 - 15:36But the thing is
that for every 15,000 dollars -
15:36 - 15:38that we spend intervening
-
15:38 - 15:42in the lives of economically
and otherwise disadvantaged kids -
15:42 - 15:43in those earlier chapters,
-
15:43 - 15:47we save 80,000 dollars
in crime-related costs down the road. -
15:48 - 15:53Even if you don't agree that
there's a moral imperative that we do it, -
15:54 - 15:57it just makes economic sense.
-
15:58 - 16:01I want to tell you about the last
conversation that I had with Will. -
16:02 - 16:06It was the day that
he was going to be executed, -
16:08 - 16:10and we were just talking.
-
16:10 - 16:13There was nothing left to do in his case.
-
16:13 - 16:15And we were talking about his life.
-
16:16 - 16:20And he was talking first about his dad,
who he hardly knew, who had died, -
16:20 - 16:25and then about his mom,
who he did know, who was still alive. -
16:26 - 16:27And I said to him,
-
16:29 - 16:30"I know the story.
-
16:31 - 16:32I've read the records.
-
16:33 - 16:34I know that she tried to kill you."
-
16:35 - 16:37I said, "But I've always wondered
-
16:37 - 16:40whether you really
actually remember that." -
16:40 - 16:44I said, "I don't remember anything
from when I was five years old. -
16:44 - 16:46Maybe you just remember
somebody telling you." -
16:46 - 16:49And he looked at me and he leaned forward,
-
16:49 - 16:50and he said, "Professor," --
-
16:50 - 16:53he'd known me for 12 years,
he still called me Professor. -
16:53 - 16:56He said, "Professor,
I don't mean any disrespect by this, -
16:56 - 16:58but when your mama
picks up a butcher knife -
16:58 - 17:01that looks bigger than you are,
-
17:01 - 17:05and chases you through the house
screaming she's going to kill you, -
17:05 - 17:07and you have to lock yourself
in the bathroom -
17:07 - 17:08and lean against the door
-
17:08 - 17:11and holler for help
until the police get there," -
17:12 - 17:14he looked at me and he said,
-
17:14 - 17:16"that's something you don't forget."
-
17:17 - 17:20I hope there's one thing
you all won't forget: -
17:20 - 17:23In between the time
you arrived here this morning -
17:23 - 17:24and the time we break for lunch,
-
17:24 - 17:28there are going to be
four homicides in the United States. -
17:28 - 17:31We're going to devote
enormous social resources -
17:31 - 17:33to punishing the people
who commit those crimes, -
17:33 - 17:34and that's appropriate
-
17:34 - 17:37because we should punish
people who do bad things. -
17:37 - 17:39But three of those crimes are preventable.
-
17:40 - 17:43If we make the picture bigger
-
17:43 - 17:47and devote our attention
to the earlier chapters, -
17:47 - 17:51then we're never going
to write the first sentence -
17:51 - 17:53that begins the death penalty story.
-
17:54 - 17:55Thank you.
-
17:55 - 17:56(Applause)
- Title:
- Lessons from death row inmates
- Speaker:
- David R. Dow
- Description:
-
What happens before a murder? In looking for ways to reduce death penalty cases, David R. Dow realized that a surprising number of death row inmates had similar biographies. In this talk he proposes a bold plan, one that prevents murders in the first place. (Filmed at TEDxAustin.)
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 18:16
Krystian Aparta commented on English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | ||
Krystian Aparta edited English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | ||
Krystian Aparta edited English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | ||
Joanna Pietrulewicz edited English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | ||
Joanna Pietrulewicz edited English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | ||
Joanna Pietrulewicz edited English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | ||
Jenny Zurawell edited English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates | ||
Федор Гнучев commented on English subtitles for Lessons from death row inmates |
Krystian Aparta
The English transcript was updated on 1/18/2016.