Terrorism is a failed brand
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0:01 - 0:05We most certainly do talk to terrorists, no question about it.
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0:05 - 0:11We are at war with a new form of terrorism.
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0:11 - 0:15It's sort of the good old, traditional form of terrorism,
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0:15 - 0:18but it's sort of been packaged for the 21st century.
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0:18 - 0:23One of the big things about countering terrorism
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0:23 - 0:26is, how do you perceive it?
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0:26 - 0:29Because perception leads to your response to it.
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0:29 - 0:34So if you have a traditional perception of terrorism,
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0:34 - 0:38it would be that it's one of criminality, one of war.
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0:38 - 0:39So how are you going to respond to it?
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0:39 - 0:43Naturally, it would follow that you meet kind with kind.
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0:43 - 0:47You fight it. If you have a more modernist approach,
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0:47 - 0:51and your perception of terrorism is almost cause-and-effect,
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0:51 - 0:55then naturally from that, the responses that come out of it
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0:55 - 0:59are much more asymmetrical.
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0:59 - 1:03We live in a modern, global world.
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1:03 - 1:06Terrorists have actually adapted to it.
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1:06 - 1:10It's something we have to, too, and that means the people
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1:10 - 1:13who are working on counterterrorism responses
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1:13 - 1:16have to start, in effect, putting on
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1:16 - 1:20their Google-tinted glasses, or whatever.
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1:20 - 1:25For my part, what I wanted us to do was just to look at
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1:25 - 1:28terrorism as though it was a global brand,
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1:28 - 1:30say, Coca-Cola.
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1:30 - 1:36Both are fairly bad for your health. (Laughter)
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1:36 - 1:40If you look at it as a brand in those ways,
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1:40 - 1:43what you'll come to realize is, it's a pretty flawed product.
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1:43 - 1:46As we've said, it's pretty bad for your health,
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1:46 - 1:48it's bad for those who it affects,
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1:48 - 1:52and it's not actually good if you're a suicide bomber either.
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1:52 - 1:55It doesn't actually do what it says on the tin.
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1:55 - 2:00You're not really going to get 72 virgins in heaven.
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2:00 - 2:03It's not going to happen, I don't think.
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2:03 - 2:07And you're not really going to, in the '80s, end capitalism
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2:07 - 2:10by supporting one of these groups. It's a load of nonsense.
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2:10 - 2:13But what you realize, it's got an Achilles' heel.
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2:13 - 2:16The brand has an Achilles' heel.
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2:16 - 2:17We've mentioned the health,
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2:17 - 2:21but it needs consumers to buy into it.
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2:21 - 2:25The consumers it needs are the terrorist constituency.
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2:25 - 2:28They're the people who buy into the brand, support them,
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2:28 - 2:31facilitate them, and they're the people
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2:31 - 2:34we've got to reach out to.
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2:34 - 2:36We've got to attack that brand in front of them.
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2:36 - 2:41There's two essential ways of doing that, if we carry on this brand theme.
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2:41 - 2:44One is reducing their market. What I mean is,
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2:44 - 2:49it's their brand against our brand. We've got to compete.
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2:49 - 2:51We've got to show we're a better product.
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2:51 - 2:54If I'm trying to show we're a better product,
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2:54 - 2:59I probably wouldn't do things like Guantanamo Bay.
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2:59 - 3:03We've talked there about curtailing the underlying need
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3:03 - 3:06for the product itself. You could be looking there at
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3:06 - 3:10poverty, injustice, all those sorts of things
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3:10 - 3:12which feed terrorism.
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3:12 - 3:15The other thing to do is to knock the product,
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3:15 - 3:17attack the brand myth, as we've said.
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3:17 - 3:21You know, there's nothing heroic about killing a young kid.
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3:21 - 3:26Perhaps we need to focus on that and get that message back across.
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3:26 - 3:29We've got to reveal the dangers in the product.
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3:29 - 3:32Our target audience, it's not just the producers of terrorism,
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3:32 - 3:33as I've said, the terrorists.
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3:33 - 3:36It's not just the marketeers of terrorism,
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3:36 - 3:41which is those who finance, those who facilitate it,
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3:41 - 3:43but it's the consumers of terrorism.
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3:43 - 3:46We've got to get in to those homelands.
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3:46 - 3:49That's where they recruit from. That's where they get their power and strength.
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3:49 - 3:52That's where their consumers come from.
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3:52 - 3:56And we have to get our messaging in there.
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3:56 - 3:59So the essentials are, we've got to have interaction
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3:59 - 4:03in those areas, with the terrorists, the facilitators, etc.
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4:03 - 4:06We've got to engage, we've got to educate,
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4:06 - 4:09and we've got to have dialogue.
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4:09 - 4:13Now, staying on this brand thing for just a few more seconds,
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4:13 - 4:16think about delivery mechanisms.
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4:16 - 4:18How are we going to do these attacks?
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4:18 - 4:21Well, reducing the market is really one for governments
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4:21 - 4:24and civil society. We've got to show we're better.
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4:24 - 4:28We've got to show our values.
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4:28 - 4:30We've got to practice what we preach.
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4:30 - 4:33But when it comes to knocking the brand,
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4:33 - 4:37if the terrorists are Coca-Cola and we're Pepsi,
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4:37 - 4:41I don't think, being Pepsi, anything we say about Coca-Cola,
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4:41 - 4:43anyone's going to believe us.
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4:43 - 4:45So we've got to find a different mechanism,
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4:45 - 4:48and one of the best mechanisms I've ever come across
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4:48 - 4:50is the victims of terrorism.
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4:50 - 4:53They are somebody who can actually stand there and say,
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4:53 - 4:58"This product's crap. I had it and I was sick for days.
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4:58 - 5:01It burnt my hand, whatever." You believe them.
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5:01 - 5:04You can see their scars. You trust them.
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5:04 - 5:09But whether it's victims, whether it's governments,
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5:09 - 5:15NGOs, or even the Queen yesterday, in Northern Ireland,
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5:15 - 5:19we have to interact and engage with those different
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5:19 - 5:23layers of terrorism, and, in effect,
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5:23 - 5:27we do have to have a little dance with the devil.
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5:27 - 5:30This is my favorite part of my speech.
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5:30 - 5:34I wanted to blow you all up to try and make a point,
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5:34 - 5:37but — (Laughter) —
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5:37 - 5:40TED, for health and safety reasons, have told me
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5:40 - 5:42I've got to do a countdown, so
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5:42 - 5:45I feel like a bit of an Irish or Jewish terrorist,
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5:45 - 5:50sort of a health and safety terrorist, and I — (Laughter) —
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5:50 - 5:54I've got to count 3, 2, 1, and
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5:54 - 5:57it's a bit alarming, so thinking of what my motto would be,
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5:57 - 6:00and it would be, "Body parts, not heart attacks."
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6:00 - 6:05So 3, 2, 1. (Explosion sound)
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6:05 - 6:10Very good. (Laughter)
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6:10 - 6:18Now, lady in 15J was a suicide bomber amongst us all.
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6:18 - 6:20We're all victims of terrorism.
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6:20 - 6:25There's 625 of us in this room. We're going to be scarred for life.
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6:25 - 6:29There was a father and a son who sat in that seat over there.
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6:29 - 6:32The son's dead. The father lives.
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6:32 - 6:38The father will probably kick himself for years to come
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6:38 - 6:42that he didn't take that seat instead of his kid.
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6:42 - 6:44He's going to take to alcohol, and he's probably
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6:44 - 6:48going to kill himself in three years. That's the stats.
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6:48 - 6:52There's a very young, attractive lady over here,
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6:52 - 6:55and she has something which I think's the worst form
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6:55 - 6:58of psychological, physical injury I've ever seen
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6:58 - 7:01out of a suicide bombing: It's human shrapnel.
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7:01 - 7:04What it means is, when she sat in a restaurant
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7:04 - 7:07in years to come, 10 years to come, 15 years to come,
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7:07 - 7:09or she's on the beach, every so often she's going to start
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7:09 - 7:12rubbing her skin, and out of there will come
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7:12 - 7:14a piece of that shrapnel.
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7:14 - 7:20And that is a hard thing for the head to take.
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7:20 - 7:22There's a lady over there as well who lost her legs
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7:22 - 7:26in this bombing.
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7:26 - 7:30She's going to find out that she gets a pitiful amount
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7:30 - 7:34of money off our government
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7:34 - 7:37for looking after what's happened to her.
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7:37 - 7:40She had a daughter who was going to go to one of the best
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7:40 - 7:42universities. She's going to give up university
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7:42 - 7:46to look after Mum.
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7:46 - 7:49We're all here, and all of those who watch it
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7:49 - 7:51are going to be traumatized by this event,
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7:51 - 7:54but all of you here who are victims are going to learn
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7:54 - 7:56some hard truths.
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7:56 - 8:01That is, our society, we sympathize, but after a while,
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8:01 - 8:05we start to ignore. We don't do enough as a society.
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8:05 - 8:08We do not look after our victims, and we do not enable them,
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8:08 - 8:11and what I'm going to try and show is that actually,
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8:11 - 8:14victims are the best weapon we have
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8:14 - 8:17against more terrorism.
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8:17 - 8:21How would the government at the turn of the millennium
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8:21 - 8:24approach today? Well, we all know.
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8:24 - 8:26What they'd have done then is an invasion.
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8:26 - 8:29If the suicide bomber was from Wales,
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8:29 - 8:32good luck to Wales, I'd say.
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8:32 - 8:35Knee-jerk legislation, emergency provision legislation --
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8:35 - 8:39which hits at the very basis of our society, as we all know --
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8:39 - 8:42it's a mistake.
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8:42 - 8:46We're going to drive prejudice throughout Edinburgh,
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8:46 - 8:50throughout the U.K., for Welsh people.
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8:50 - 8:56Today's approach, governments have learned from their mistakes.
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8:56 - 8:58They are looking at what I've started off on,
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8:58 - 9:02on these more asymmetrical approaches to it,
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9:02 - 9:04more modernist views, cause and effect.
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9:04 - 9:07But mistakes of the past are inevitable.
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9:07 - 9:09It's human nature.
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9:09 - 9:12The fear and the pressure to do something on them
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9:12 - 9:15is going to be immense. They are going to make mistakes.
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9:15 - 9:18They're not just going to be smart.
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9:18 - 9:22There was a famous Irish terrorist who once summed up
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9:22 - 9:25the point very beautifully. He said,
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9:25 - 9:27"The thing is, about the British government, is, is that it's got
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9:27 - 9:31to be lucky all the time, and we only have to be lucky once."
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9:31 - 9:34So what we need to do is we have to effect it.
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9:34 - 9:37We've got to start thinking about being more proactive.
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9:37 - 9:42We need to build an arsenal of noncombative weapons
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9:42 - 9:43in this war on terrorism.
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9:43 - 9:52But of course, it's ideas -- is not something that governments do very well.
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9:52 - 9:56I want to go back just to before the bang, to this idea of
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9:56 - 10:00brand, and I was talking about Coke and Pepsi, etc.
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10:00 - 10:04We see it as terrorism versus democracy in that brand war.
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10:04 - 10:06They'll see it as freedom fighters and truth
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10:06 - 10:13against injustice, imperialism, etc.
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10:13 - 10:17We do have to see this as a deadly battlefield.
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10:17 - 10:21It's not just [our] flesh and blood they want.
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10:21 - 10:23They actually want our cultural souls, and that's why
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10:23 - 10:28the brand analogy is a very interesting way of looking at this.
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10:28 - 10:32If we look at al Qaeda. Al Qaeda was essentially
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10:32 - 10:37a product on a shelf in a souk somewhere
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10:37 - 10:39which not many people had heard of.
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10:39 - 10:439/11 launched it. It was its big marketing day,
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10:43 - 10:48and it was packaged for the 21st century. They knew what they were doing.
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10:48 - 10:52They were effectively [doing] something in this brand image
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10:52 - 10:55of creating a brand which can be franchised around
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10:55 - 11:01the world, where there's poverty, ignorance and injustice.
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11:01 - 11:05We, as I've said, have got to hit that market,
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11:05 - 11:08but we've got to use our heads rather than our might.
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11:08 - 11:12If we perceive it in this way as a brand, or other ways of thinking at it like this,
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11:12 - 11:16we will not resolve or counter terrorism.
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11:16 - 11:20What I'd like to do is just briefly go through a few examples
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11:20 - 11:25from my work on areas where we try and approach these things differently.
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11:25 - 11:29The first one has been dubbed "lawfare,"
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11:29 - 11:31for want of a better word.
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11:31 - 11:35When we originally looked at bringing civil actions against terrorists,
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11:35 - 11:38everyone thought we were a bit mad and mavericks
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11:38 - 11:42and crackpots. Now it's got a title. Everyone's doing it.
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11:42 - 11:43There's a bomb, people start suing.
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11:43 - 11:47But one of the first early cases on this was the Omagh Bombing.
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11:47 - 11:51A civil action was brought from 1998.
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11:51 - 11:54In Omagh, bomb went off, Real IRA,
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11:54 - 11:56middle of a peace process.
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11:56 - 12:00That meant that the culprits couldn't really be prosecuted
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12:00 - 12:04for lots of reasons, mostly to do with the peace process
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12:04 - 12:06and what was going on, the greater good.
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12:06 - 12:08It also meant, then, if you can imagine this,
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12:08 - 12:11that the people who bombed your children
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12:11 - 12:16and your husbands were walking around the supermarket
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12:16 - 12:18that you lived in.
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12:18 - 12:21Some of those victims said enough is enough.
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12:21 - 12:25We brought a private action, and thank God, 10 years later,
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12:25 - 12:27we actually won it. There is a slight appeal on
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12:27 - 12:29at the moment so I have to be a bit careful,
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12:29 - 12:31but I'm fairly confident.
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12:31 - 12:33Why was it effective?
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12:33 - 12:36It was effective not just because justice was seen to be done
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12:36 - 12:37where there was a huge void.
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12:37 - 12:42It was because the Real IRA and other terrorist groups,
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12:42 - 12:44their whole strength is from the fact that they are
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12:44 - 12:49an underdog. When we put the victims as the underdog
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12:49 - 12:52and flipped it, they didn't know what to do.
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12:52 - 12:56They were embarrassed. Their recruitment went down.
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12:56 - 13:01The bombs actually stopped -- fact -- because of this action.
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13:01 - 13:04We became, or those victims became, more importantly,
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13:04 - 13:08a ghost that haunted the terrorist organization.
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13:08 - 13:11There's other examples. We have a case called Almog
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13:11 - 13:15which is to do with a bank that was,
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13:15 - 13:18allegedly, from our point of view,
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13:18 - 13:22giving rewards to suicide bombers.
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13:22 - 13:25Just by bringing the very action,
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13:25 - 13:28that bank has stopped doing it, and indeed,
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13:28 - 13:30the powers that be around the world, which for real politic
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13:30 - 13:33reasons before, couldn't actually deal with this issue,
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13:33 - 13:35because there was lots of competing interests,
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13:35 - 13:38have actually closed down those loopholes in the banking system.
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13:38 - 13:41There's another case called the McDonald case,
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13:41 - 13:45where some victims of Semtex, of the Provisional IRA bombings,
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13:45 - 13:52which were supplied by Gaddafi, sued,
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13:52 - 13:56and that action has led to amazing things for new Libya.
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13:56 - 13:59New Libya has been compassionate towards those victims,
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13:59 - 14:03and started taking it -- so it started a whole new dialogue there.
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14:03 - 14:07But the problem is, we need more and more support
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14:07 - 14:10for these ideas and cases.
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14:10 - 14:15Civil affairs and civil society initiatives.
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14:15 - 14:17A good one is in Somalia. There's a war on piracy.
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14:17 - 14:19If anyone thinks you can have a war on piracy
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14:19 - 14:22like a war on terrorism and beat it, you're wrong.
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14:22 - 14:25What we're trying to do there is turn pirates to fisherman.
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14:25 - 14:27They used to be fisherman, of course,
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14:27 - 14:30but we stole their fish and dumped a load of toxic waste
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14:30 - 14:33in their water, so what we're trying to do is create
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14:33 - 14:36security and employment by bringing a coastguard
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14:36 - 14:39along with the fisheries industry, and I can guarantee you,
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14:39 - 14:42as that builds, al Shabaab and such likes will not have
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14:42 - 14:46the poverty and injustice any longer to prey on those people.
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14:46 - 14:50These initiatives cost less than a missile,
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14:50 - 14:53and certainly less than any soldier's life,
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14:53 - 14:55but more importantly, it takes the war to their homelands,
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14:55 - 14:58and not onto our shore,
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14:58 - 14:59and we're looking at the causes.
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14:59 - 15:03The last one I wanted to talk about was dialogue.
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15:03 - 15:05The advantages of dialogue are obvious.
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15:05 - 15:10It self-educates both sides, enables a better understanding,
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15:10 - 15:12reveals the strengths and weaknesses,
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15:12 - 15:15and yes, like some of the speakers before,
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15:15 - 15:18the shared vulnerability does lead to trust, and
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15:18 - 15:21it does then become, that process, part of normalization.
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15:21 - 15:26But it's not an easy road. After the bomb,
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15:26 - 15:29the victims are not into this.
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15:29 - 15:31There's practical problems.
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15:31 - 15:34It's politically risky for the protagonists
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15:34 - 15:37and for the interlocutors. On one occasion
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15:37 - 15:39I was doing it, every time I did a point that they didn't like,
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15:39 - 15:41they actually threw stones at me,
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15:41 - 15:43and when I did a point they liked,
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15:43 - 15:48they starting shooting in the air, equally not great. (Laughter)
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15:48 - 15:51Whatever the point, it gets to the heart of the problem,
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15:51 - 15:53you're doing it, you're talking to them.
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15:53 - 15:57Now, I just want to end with saying, if we follow reason,
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15:57 - 16:02we realize that I think we'd all say that we want to
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16:02 - 16:05have a perception of terrorism which is not just a pure
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16:05 - 16:08military perception of it.
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16:08 - 16:11We need to foster more
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16:11 - 16:14modern and asymmetrical responses to it.
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16:14 - 16:16This isn't about being soft on terrorism.
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16:16 - 16:20It's about fighting them on contemporary battlefields.
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16:20 - 16:23We must foster innovation, as I've said.
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16:23 - 16:27Governments are receptive. It won't come from those dusty corridors.
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16:27 - 16:29The private sector has a role.
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16:29 - 16:32The role we could do right now is going away
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16:32 - 16:35and looking at how we can support victims around the world
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16:35 - 16:37to bring initiatives.
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16:37 - 16:40If I was to leave you with some big questions here which
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16:40 - 16:43may change one's perception to it, and who knows what
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16:43 - 16:45thoughts and responses will come out of it,
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16:45 - 16:49but did myself and my terrorist group actually need
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16:49 - 16:53to blow you up to make our point?
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16:53 - 16:57We have to ask ourselves these questions, however unpalatable.
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16:57 - 17:00Have we been ignoring an injustice or a humanitarian
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17:00 - 17:03struggle somewhere in the world?
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17:03 - 17:06What if, actually, engagement on poverty and injustice
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17:06 - 17:08is exactly what the terrorists wanted us to do?
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17:08 - 17:11What if the bombs are just simply wake-up calls for us?
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17:11 - 17:14What happens if that bomb went off
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17:14 - 17:18because we didn't have any thoughts and things in place
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17:18 - 17:22to allow dialogue to deal with these things and interaction?
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17:22 - 17:25What is definitely uncontroversial
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17:25 - 17:27is that, as I've said, we've got to stop being reactive,
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17:27 - 17:31and more proactive, and I just want to leave you
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17:31 - 17:34with one idea, which is that
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17:34 - 17:37it's a provocative question for you to think about,
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17:37 - 17:42and the answer will require sympathy with the devil.
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17:42 - 17:44It's a question that's been tackled by many great thinkers
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17:44 - 17:49and writers: What if society actually needs crisis to change?
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17:49 - 17:53What if society actually needs terrorism
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17:53 - 17:55to change and adapt for the better?
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17:55 - 18:00It's those Bulgakov themes, it's that picture of Jesus
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18:00 - 18:03and the Devil hand in hand in Gethsemane
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18:03 - 18:05walking into the moonlight.
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18:05 - 18:08What it would mean is that humans,
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18:08 - 18:11in order to survive in development,
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18:11 - 18:13quite Darwinian spirit here,
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18:13 - 18:17inherently must dance with the devil.
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18:17 - 18:21A lot of people say that communism was defeated
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18:21 - 18:25by the Rolling Stones. It's a good theory.
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18:25 - 18:28Maybe the Rolling Stones has a place in this.
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18:28 - 18:31Thank you.
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18:31 - 18:40(Music) (Applause)
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18:40 - 18:42Bruno Giussani: Thank you. (Applause)
- Title:
- Terrorism is a failed brand
- Speaker:
- Jason McCue
- Description:
-
In this gripping talk, lawyer Jason McCue urges for a new way to attack terrorism, to weaken its credibility with those who are buying the product -- the recruits. He shares stories of real cases where he and other activists used this approach to engage and create change.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 19:02
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for Terrorism is a failed brand | ||
Mariangela Correa edited English subtitles for Terrorism is a failed brand | ||
Mariangela Correa edited English subtitles for Terrorism is a failed brand | ||
Mariangela Correa edited English subtitles for Terrorism is a failed brand | ||
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for Terrorism is a failed brand | ||
Thu-Huong Ha approved English subtitles for Terrorism is a failed brand | ||
Thu-Huong Ha edited English subtitles for Terrorism is a failed brand | ||
Morton Bast accepted English subtitles for Terrorism is a failed brand |