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(Michael Wesch): .... Hey, hello everybody!
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Welcome to the first connected course's live session.
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I'm here with Randy Bass and Cathy Davidson
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and we're going to talk about "The end of higher education",
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both in that sort of gloomy sense of what's happening right now
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and, you know, are things -- are we really coming to an end,
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are we at a turning point?
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But also about the "end" of higher education as in the "purpose" of higher education:
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what should it be?
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And if this is a moment of reinvention
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maybe this is a chance to redefine who we are and what we're doing.
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So, we have Randy Bass and Cathy Davidson,
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two outstanding scholars and great thinkers in this area.
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Randy is Vice-provost for Education and Professor of English at Georgetown University.
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He was also the founding director of Georgetown's Center for New Designs in Learning and Scholarship
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or "CNDLS".
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Really a wonderful organization, and I had the pleasure visiting there once
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and had a wonderful time:
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this is a great space of innovation in education and pedagogy.
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He has written many wonderful things; I'll just point to one that might be relevant to this:
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in -- I think it was just maybe a couple of years ago --
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"Disrupting ourselves - the problem of learning in higher education."
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That's a great article that I think provides some good background
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for some of the things we'll be talking about today.
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And then also, we have Cathy Davidson here.
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Cathy recently moved to the Graduate Center at the City University of New York.
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She is now Distinguished Professor and Director of the Futures Initiative there,
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which is a program designed to train the next generation of college professors
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and I saw once how many people you might be affecting.
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It's tremendous, and I think we're all excited to have somebody like you in that position,
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affecting so many people and possibly,
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having a tremendous influence on the future of higher education through that role.
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Cathy has authored a number of great books.
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Recently she wrote "Now you see it"
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which also offers some great reflection on her own life
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and how she's learned over the years and,
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and there's some great stories in there, I don't want to spoil it for you guys,
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but you should all read it right from the beginning so you can
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get a sense of how somebody can take their own life experience and
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learn from it and create better learners.
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So I'll leave it at that and we'll go ahead and get started.
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The way we're gonna start out is, actually, I've asked them all --
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each to reflect on the best class they ever taught, so we're gonna start there.
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And, uh, Randy do you want to start us off with the best class you ever taught?
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(Randy): Well, sure and this is, of course, in my own mind
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not necessarily in the opinion of the students, but
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thank you, Michael for inviting me.
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It's great to be here.
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Um, I would say one of the most rewarding classes I ever taught was
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a course that I co-taught with an architect, Ann Pendleton-Julian,
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it was called "The future of the university as a design problem",
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so pertinent to our topic.
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But we taught it as what we called 'the humanities studio'
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and it was a blend of the kind of inquiry that you would do in a seminar
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but rigorously taught like an architecture studio.
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So we had what architects would call table crits or desk crits and wall crits
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where students would pin up their work and
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formal presentations of their work where we flew people in for their mid-term and
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had guests at the final.
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And after doing precedent work and reading theory and background
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students spent most of the time working on their designs of
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what the university would look like in 2030.
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It really could've been any topic, the point was that in groups
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they were working on a design-based concept that they made their own
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and it was their own from beginning to end.
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The rhythm of this, they were mostly working in drawings.
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They would work for hours and then come in for critiques
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and then go away with the 10% of their idea that was still live and throw away 90%.
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I taught writing for 25 years as an English professor
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I've never taught a class where people-- where the students became so
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fearless of revision
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in a way that just had them -- just -- just driven
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for the idea.
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It was an atmosphere of great student ownership.
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They felt like they were working on a problem that mattered to them,
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they were presenting to an authentic audience.
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The two of us, as faculty, were really just bumpers or
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scaffolds for them
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and all my career I've really wanted to make the classroom
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a place where people thought of it as a place to come to work,
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not a place to come to listen
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and that's really what the studio is.
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It's a place for you to come to work on your own with your small group
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and with your mentors.
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So, so that was, I think, the most rewarding class I taught
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and those are some of the salient features.
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(Michael): Mmhmm. That's great.
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How about you Cathy?
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(Cathy): Um, I'm gonna mention one class that then
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became the basis of a second class
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and these are the last 2 years that I taught at Duke University.
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One was a class on 21st century literacies
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and we were doing -- it was students from Duke University, North Carolina
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and NC State University.
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I had to go away and give a talk at the Digital Media Learning Conference
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and we were gonna be -- so my students helped prepare
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and they were going to be virtual participants of that conference.
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We'd been using lots of collaborative tools throughout the course.
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It didn't seem like a problem to be gone.
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The virtual panel worked great.
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I came back and the students had mutinied.
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And I, uh, used learning contracts for my classes.
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We'd created class constitution, they'd thrown everything out
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and they didn't want to do that
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which is the fear that many academics have about peer-led, student-lead work.
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Except, instead of them trying to get away with something
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what they decided was they loved what we were doing so much
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they wanted to write a handbook about it
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for the rest of the world.
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They rewrote their contracts saying if on final exam time
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they did not deliver a completed book manuscript,
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with each of them doing a chapter,
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and they'd already done the 'table of contents' and everything,
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they would all fail the course.
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Now, as an academic I would never fail everybody for not working collectively
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but they were willing to put their reputations on the line.
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I don't know what I would have done if they hadn't done it,
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but here's the book.
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We did a physical book, it's also up on Github,
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it's on Haystack, it's been downloaded 16,000 times
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just from the Haystack website.
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I don't know what the numbers are from other sources.
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The following year I then taught a MOOC on 'The history and future of higher education'
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where we used this as our textbook for 18,000 students.
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I had 18 face-to-face students again from Duke, North Carolina
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State and University of North Carolina, undergraduate, graduate students from
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computer science to MFA students
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and the students were the -- used the MOOC as a chance to think about MOOCs.
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It was kind of what we called it the 'meta-MOOC'
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and the Chronicle for Higher Education asked us to,
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asked me, actually, to write a column each week on it
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and I said "Well, that would be hypocritical if I wrote the column"
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so each week my students wrote the column and we, again,
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self-published it into a little book up there 'Columns each week'
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on what they were learning from co-teaching the MOOC
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and our final project,
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partly inspired by what Randy and Ann had done,
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I was working closely with Ann during the year,
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was, um, project of creating higher ed from scratch.
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We had 3 different design teams where we asked probably 200 questions
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about what is an education for
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and then did business plans models, CAD drawings
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of 3 very, very different kinds of institutions.
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Fascinating.
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Also, as Randy said, it was a situation where I came in and listened
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more than -- far, far more than I taught.
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It was an amazing experience.
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The downside was with the MOOC students were awake
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24/7, literally.
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The endless cycle and my students were so engaged
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they were saying they weren't sleeping at all.
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They were up all night typing to people.
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There was a group in Otago, New Zealand.
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There was another group in India, there was another group in Thailand
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and there were several groups in Europe and in Latin America
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and they were up all night talking about assessment.
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New plans for assessment and new ideas for assessment
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and other kinds of topics relevant to 'the history and future of higher education'.
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So, the upside: engagement, the downside: insomnia.
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So, but it was an incredible experience.
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(Michael):Yeah, I mean, I, I can relate to that.
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I guess the favourite class that I pull out
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is a very small class, it's 10 students
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and every year we've been kinda pushing the envelope
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of how authentic it gets, I guess.
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So, it's a methods class and
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in this case, anthropology methods
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and so I'm just trying -- getting them to do anthropology.
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And so, my favourite class -- this last year they actually got to move into
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a retirement community and
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live there for the whole semester
(Cathy: Wow!)
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so it's very, um.. y'know
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in many ways we were disconnected from the wider world
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in terms of-- like we weren't leveraging internet like we normally do,
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but it was really special and I think we still, like,
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hit a lot of these things you guys have been talking about.
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I mean, the sense of ownership,
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the fearlessness of revision
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and all of that came, I think, because
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we were studying problems that matter.
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We had this authentic audience we were working for.
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All these things that you guys mentioned just now
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and I could go on and on, these are --
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you guys hit on some really great stuff.
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Cathy, you mentioned the contract
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and not only the contract but also the rewriting of the contract
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and that was, obviously, emblematic of this intensive engagement
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which, obviously, got -- almost went too far, right?
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Uh, so we have all these different elements and I think
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these classes that we've each described
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in many ways, describe something special happening
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when people come together to learn together, right?
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It's something that can't happen just in learning on your own.
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So that then gets that -- the next question I wanted to approach
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and that is, what is this education all about?
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What can higher education be for?
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When you hear a lot of the rhetoric now
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about how education is changing
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and these apocalyptic visions of the end of higher education,
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do you guys hear any, kind of, assumptions about
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what the purpose of higher education is, in those different visions
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and are there visions that concern you?
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Are there people who seem to be suggesting that education is, kinda, for something
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that's maybe not as complete as the experiences we just described?
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(Cathy): Sure, uh.
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Should I go ahead, Randy? Or do you wanna go ahead?
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(Randy): No, go ahead.
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(Cathy): Well, I have a number of thoughts.
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One, I actually think that the gloom and doom about higher education being over
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is premature
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and to paraphrase Twain, as we all do,
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one thing about MOOCs, Massive Online Open Coursework,
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is clearly if we are willing to offer the products of higher education and specialised learning
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for free and in a way people can assess it,
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millions of people want it.
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So, for awhile, I would say 5 years ago, that rhetoric was 'higher education is over,
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nobody is interested, it's a bunch of fuddy-duddys doing their own navel-gazing,
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there's no engagement with the world'.
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Well, guess what?
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You put it online for free and millions and millions of people around the world want it
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and the demographics of MOOCs are the
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same people who are part of the 'Bored at Work' movement.
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Y'know, 30 years old, you already have a degree,
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you're not doing this for any other reason but that you really want some kind of
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intellectual, emotional nourishment in the world.
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So, I think higher education is more validated now than ever.
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The cost is a real problem
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and the cost is because of 50 years of defunding of public education
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and of research.
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The part, that to me, is the end of higher education in the negative sense is
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people who see higher education as being a gold mine and a profit-mine.
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That's for things that have nothing whatsoever to do with education,
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but only have to do with
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what I literally mean in the historic sense of profiteering,
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which is a quasi-legal set of structures that make it possible for somebody to get
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too much money with too little effort,
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with too little competition among other sources
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and for reasons that are different than the mission of education.
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So that, to me, is the big thing to worry about right now.
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Higher education itself, I think, has never been more vital and never been more needed.
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At the same time I do believe, and I say this a lot, if we can be replaced by computer screens we should be.
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And by that I mean if we're not doing something amazing
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in our classroom and taking this very precious thing we have
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of the opportunity to interact with one another,
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whether it's on-screen like this or face-to-face.
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If we're not figuring out a better way of doing it then sitting up there like a robot
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yabbering at people who are reading the newspaper in those classrooms that
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that abolished laptops as if that's gonna solve the problem,
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then we should be replaced by computer screens
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and I think it's a challenge to us to be as meaningful and urgent
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and relevant and connected to people's lives and connected to one another as we possibly can
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and to make the educational system experience
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something that truly is life-changing.
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And if it isn't life-changing then sure, go to a degree mill and do whatever you have to do
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to get your education, but, uh that's my polemic.
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(Michael): Yeah.
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(Randy): Well, I, I completely agree and
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I think that
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what it is that we believe
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that is different about higher education from
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other modes of learning
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is not necessarily what has always been a reality.
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So, I think that we believe in the values
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that it can be life-changing, it can be transformational,
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it can be holistic.
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Of course, the reality is that for lots of students who pass through
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very traditional looking universities,
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they're not actually getting that kind of education.
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So, I think part of what, I hope that the
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apocalyptic wave -- those 2 or 3 years where we all went extinct
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according to the front pages of the media
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and then we all came back to life
(Cathy laughing)
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are when MOOCs went extinct and now we're back and everything's OK.
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That is putting pressure on us to ask the questions
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about how effective-- are we really doing the things we're claim we're doing?
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I think that we haven't done a particularly good job
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at the evidence of what difference it makes to go through this kind of an education-
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versus getting your learning somewhere else.
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Nor have we always done a very good job across higher education
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for a really diverse, broad, equitable population,
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of thinking about the design of the overall education,
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and to what extent the entire education is really tending toward this transformation.
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I think a lot of people have enjoyed the luxury that somehow the whole package-
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the milieu of the campus, finding that exceptional relationship with the professor,
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the opportunity in the co-curricular experience.
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That ends being transformational.
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With a lot of time spent in courses that are not inspirational or transformational.
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A lot of other activity that feels like you're just moving through requirements or checking boxes.
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So we're far from having designed this system that's really optimized
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for the kind of learning that I think we all believe that the institution can provide.
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(Michael): I think the people who are here with us today
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are coming up at this in two ways, right?
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One is they are thinking about how to change the structure a little bit,
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and they are thinking about leveraging Internet and creating informal networks of learning,
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and so on that could merge with formal networks of learning.
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So they working on that element.
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And then I think most people listening in right now are also teachers in the traditional sense. (16:53)