Why I brought Pac-Man to MoMA
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0:00 - 0:03I'm almost like a crazy evangelical.
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0:03 - 0:05I've always known that the age of design is upon us,
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0:05 - 0:07almost like a rapture.
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0:07 - 0:09If the day is sunny, I think,
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0:09 - 0:11"Oh, the gods have had a good design day."
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0:11 - 0:16Or, I go to a show and I see a beautiful piece by an artist,
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0:16 - 0:17particularly beautiful, I say
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0:17 - 0:20he's so good because he clearly looked to design
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0:20 - 0:22to understand what he needed to do.
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0:22 - 0:25So I really do believe that design
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0:25 - 0:27is the highest form of creative expression.
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0:27 - 0:31That's why I'm talking to you today about the age of design,
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0:31 - 0:33and the age of design is the age in which design
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0:33 - 0:37is still cute furniture, is still posters,
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0:37 - 0:40is still fast cars, what you see at MoMA today.
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0:40 - 0:44But in truth, what I really would like to explain
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0:44 - 0:46to the public and to the audiences of MoMA is that
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0:46 - 0:49the most interesting chairs are the ones
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0:49 - 0:52that are actually made by a robot,
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0:52 - 0:54like this beautiful chair by Dirk Vander Kooij,
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0:54 - 0:58where a robot deposits a toothpaste-like slur
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0:58 - 1:01of recycled refrigerator parts,
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1:01 - 1:05as if he were a big candy, and makes a chair out of it.
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1:05 - 1:09Or good design is digital fonts that we use all the time
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1:09 - 1:11and that become part of our identity.
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1:11 - 1:13I want people to understand
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1:13 - 1:16that design is so much more than cute chairs,
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1:16 - 1:20that it is first and foremost everything that is around us
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1:20 - 1:21in our life.
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1:21 - 1:24And it's interesting how so much of what we're talking about
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1:24 - 1:27tonight is not simply design but interaction design.
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1:27 - 1:31And in fact, interaction design is what I've been trying
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1:31 - 1:33to insert in the collection of the Museum of Modern Art
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1:33 - 1:36for a few years, starting not very timidly
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1:36 - 1:39but just pointedly with works, for instance,
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1:39 - 1:42by Martin Wattenberg -- the way a machine
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1:42 - 1:45plays chess with itself, that you see here,
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1:45 - 1:48or Lisa Strausfeld and her partners, the Sugar interface
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1:48 - 1:50for One Laptop Per Child,
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1:50 - 1:54Toshio Iwai's Tenori-On musical instruments,
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1:54 - 1:57and Philip Worthington's Shadow Monsters,
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1:57 - 2:00and John Maeda's Reactive Books,
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2:00 - 2:04and also Jonathan Harris and Sep Kamvar's I Want You To Want Me.
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2:04 - 2:07These were some of the first acquisitions that really
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2:07 - 2:10introduced the idea of interaction design to the public.
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2:10 - 2:14But more recently, I've been trying really to go even deeper
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2:14 - 2:16into interaction design with examples
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2:16 - 2:19that are emotionally really suggestive
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2:19 - 2:22and that really explain interaction design at a level
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2:22 - 2:24that is almost undeniable.
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2:24 - 2:27The Wind Map, by Wattenberg and Fernanda Viégas,
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2:27 - 2:29I don't know if you've ever seen it -- it's really fantastic.
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2:29 - 2:32It looks at the territory of the United States
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2:32 - 2:38as if it were a wheat field that is procured by the winds
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2:38 - 2:41and that is really giving you a pictorial image
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2:41 - 2:44of what's going on with the winds in the United States.
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2:44 - 2:49But also, more recently, we started acquiring video games,
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2:49 - 2:51and that's where all hell broke loose
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2:51 - 2:53in a really interesting way. (Laughter)
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2:53 - 2:56There are still people that believe that there's a high and there's a low.
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2:56 - 2:59And that's really what I find so intriguing
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2:59 - 3:03about the reactions that we've had to the anointment
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3:03 - 3:06of video games in the MoMA collection.
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3:06 - 3:09We've -- No, first of all, New York Magazine always gets it.
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3:09 - 3:11I love them. So we are in the right quadrant.
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3:11 - 3:15We are in the Highbrow -- that's daring, that's courageous --
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3:15 - 3:17and Brilliant, which is great.
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3:17 - 3:20Timidly, we've been higher on the diagonal in other situations,
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3:20 - 3:23but it's okay. It's good. It's good. It's good. (Laughter)
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3:23 - 3:27But here comes the art critic. Oh, that was fantastic.
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3:27 - 3:29So the first was Jonathan Jones from The Guardian.
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3:29 - 3:31"Sorry, MoMA, video games are not art."
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3:31 - 3:36Did I ever say they were art? I was talking about interaction design. Excuse me.
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3:36 - 3:40"Exhibiting Pac-Man and Tetris alongside Picasso and Van Gogh" --
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3:40 - 3:43They're two floors away. (Laughter) —
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3:43 - 3:47"will mean game over for any real understanding of art."
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3:47 - 3:51I'm bringing in the end of the world. You know?
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3:51 - 3:53We were talking about the rapture? It's coming.
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3:53 - 3:56And Jonathan Jones is making it happen.
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3:56 - 3:59So the same Guardian rebuts,
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3:59 - 4:01"Are video games art: the debate that shouldn't be.
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4:01 - 4:04Last week, Guardian art critic blah blah suggested
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4:04 - 4:07that games cannot qualify as art. But is he right?
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4:07 - 4:10And does it matter?" Thank you. Does it matter?
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4:10 - 4:13You know, it's like once again there's this whole problem
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4:13 - 4:16of design being often misunderstood for art,
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4:16 - 4:19or the idea that is so diffuse that designers want to
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4:19 - 4:23aspire to, would like to be called, artists.
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4:23 - 4:26No. Designers aspire to be really great designers.
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4:26 - 4:28Thank you very much. And that's more than enough.
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4:28 - 4:31So my knight in shining armor, John Maeda,
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4:31 - 4:35without any prompt, came out with this big declaration
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4:35 - 4:37on why video games belong in the MoMA.
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4:37 - 4:39And that was fantastic. And I thought that was it.
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4:39 - 4:43But then there was another wonderfully pretentious article
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4:43 - 4:46that came out in The New Republic, so pretentious,
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4:46 - 4:50by Liel Leibovitz, and it said, "MoMA has mistaken video games for art." Again.
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4:50 - 4:54"The museum is putting Pac-Man alongside Picasso." Again.
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4:54 - 4:55"That misses the point."
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4:55 - 4:57Excuse me. You're missing the point.
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4:57 - 5:01And here, look, the above question is put bluntly:
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5:01 - 5:04"Are video games art? No. Video games aren't art
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5:04 - 5:08because they are quite thoroughly something else: code."
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5:08 - 5:12Oh, so Picasso is not art because it's oil paint. Right?
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5:12 - 5:14So it's so fantastic to see
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5:14 - 5:17how these feathers that were ruffled,
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5:17 - 5:19and these reactions, were so vehement.
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5:19 - 5:21And you know what?
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5:21 - 5:23The International Cat Video Film Festival
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5:23 - 5:26didn't have that much of a reaction. (Laughter)
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5:26 - 5:27I think this was truly fantastic.
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5:27 - 5:30We were talking about dancing ponies, but I was really jealous
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5:30 - 5:34of the Walker Arts Center for putting up this festival,
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5:34 - 5:36because it's very, very wonderful.
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5:36 - 5:39And there's this Flaubert quote that I love:
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5:39 - 5:41"I have always tried to live in an ivory tower,
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5:41 - 5:43but a tide of shit is beating at its walls,
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5:43 - 5:45threatening to undermine it."
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5:45 - 5:47I consider myself the tide of shit.
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5:47 - 5:53(Laughter) (Applause)
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5:53 - 5:55You know, we have to go through that.
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5:55 - 5:57Even in the 1930s, my colleagues
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5:57 - 6:00that were trying to put together an abstract art show
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6:00 - 6:03had all of these works stopped by the customs officers
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6:03 - 6:05that decided they were not art.
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6:05 - 6:07So it's happened before, and it will happen in the future,
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6:07 - 6:12but right now I can tell you that I am so, so proud
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6:12 - 6:16to be able to call Pac-Man part of the MoMA collection.
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6:16 - 6:21And the same with, for instance, Tetris, original version, the Soviet one.
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6:21 - 6:24And you know, the amount of work --
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6:24 - 6:27yeah, Alexey Pajitnov was working for the Soviet government
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6:27 - 6:29and that's how he developed Tetris,
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6:29 - 6:33and Alexey himself reconstructed the whole game
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6:33 - 6:37and even gave us a simulation of the cathode ray tube
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6:37 - 6:40that makes it look slightly bombed.
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6:40 - 6:42And it's fantastic.
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6:42 - 6:45So behind these acquisitions is an enormous amount of work,
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6:45 - 6:47because we're still the Museum of Modern Art,
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6:47 - 6:48so even when we tackle popular culture,
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6:48 - 6:51we tackle it as a form of interaction design
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6:51 - 6:54and as something that has to go into the collection at MoMA,
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6:54 - 6:56therefore, has to be researched.
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6:56 - 6:59So to get to choosing Eric Chahi's
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6:59 - 7:01wonderful Another World, amongst others,
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7:01 - 7:03we put together a panel of experts,
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7:03 - 7:04and we worked on this acquisition,
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7:04 - 7:08and it's mostly myself and Kate Carmody and Paul Galloway.
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7:08 - 7:10We worked on it for a year and a half.
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7:10 - 7:13So many people helped us — designers of games,
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7:13 - 7:15you might know Jamin Warren
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7:15 - 7:18and his collaborators at Kill Screen magazine,
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7:18 - 7:19and you know, Kevin Slavin. You name it.
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7:19 - 7:23We bugged everybody, because we knew that we were ignorant.
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7:23 - 7:25We were not real gamers enough,
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7:25 - 7:27so we had to really talk to them.
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7:27 - 7:31And so we decided, of course, to have Sim City 2000,
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7:31 - 7:33not the other Sim City, that one in particular,
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7:33 - 7:36so the criteria that we developed along the way
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7:36 - 7:40were really strong, and were not only criteria of selection.
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7:40 - 7:44They were also criteria of exhibition and of preservation.
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7:44 - 7:47That's what makes this acquisition more than a little game
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7:47 - 7:51or a little joke. It's truly a way to think of how to preserve
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7:51 - 7:54and show artifacts that will more and more
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7:54 - 7:56become part of our lives in the future.
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7:56 - 7:59We live today, as you know very well, not in the digital,
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7:59 - 8:02not in the physical, but in the kind of minestrone
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8:02 - 8:04that our mind makes of the two.
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8:04 - 8:07And that's really where interaction lies,
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8:07 - 8:10and that's the importance of interaction.
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8:10 - 8:13And in order to explain interaction, we need to really
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8:13 - 8:15bring people in and make them realize
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8:15 - 8:17how interaction is part of their lives.
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8:17 - 8:20So when I talk about it, I don't talk only about video games,
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8:20 - 8:22which are in a way the purest form of interaction,
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8:22 - 8:26unadulterated by any kind of function or finality.
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8:26 - 8:29I also talk about the MetroCard vending machine,
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8:29 - 8:31which I consider a masterpiece of interaction.
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8:31 - 8:33I mean, that interface is beautiful.
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8:33 - 8:37It looks like a burly MTA guy coming out of the tunnel.
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8:37 - 8:41You know, with your mitt you can actually paw
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8:41 - 8:44the MetroCard, and I talk about how bad
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8:44 - 8:47ATM machines usually are.
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8:47 - 8:50So I let people understand that it's up to them
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8:50 - 8:52to know how to judge interaction
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8:52 - 8:54so as to know when it's good or when it's bad.
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8:54 - 8:56So when I show The Sims,
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8:56 - 8:59I try to make people really feel what it meant
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8:59 - 9:01to have an interaction with The Sims,
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9:01 - 9:03not only the fun but also the responsibility
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9:03 - 9:05that came with the Tamagotchi.
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9:05 - 9:07You know, video games can be truly deep
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9:07 - 9:09even when they're completely mindless.
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9:09 - 9:11I'm sure that all of you know Katamari Damacy.
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9:11 - 9:15It's about rolling a ball and picking up as many objects as you can
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9:15 - 9:17in a finite amount of time
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9:17 - 9:19and hopefully you'll be able to make it into a planet.
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9:19 - 9:22I've never made it into a planet, but that's it.
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9:22 - 9:25Or, you know, Vib-Ribbon was not distributed here in the United States.
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9:25 - 9:27It was a PlayStation game, but mostly for Japan.
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9:27 - 9:29And it was one of the first video games
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9:29 - 9:30in which you could choose your own music.
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9:30 - 9:33So you would put into the PlayStation,
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9:33 - 9:34you would put your own CD,
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9:34 - 9:39and then the game would change alongside your music. So really fantastic.
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9:39 - 9:41Not to mention Eve Online.
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9:41 - 9:44Eve Online is an artificial universe, if you wish,
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9:44 - 9:46but one of the diplomats that was killed in Benghazi,
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9:46 - 9:49not Ambassador Stevens, but one of his collaborators,
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9:49 - 9:51was a really big shot in Eve Online,
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9:51 - 9:53so here you have a diplomat in the real world
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9:53 - 9:56that spends his time in Eve Online
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9:56 - 10:00to kind of test, maybe, all of his ideas about diplomacy
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10:00 - 10:03and about universe-building, and to the point that
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10:03 - 10:05the first announcement of the bombing
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10:05 - 10:07was actually given on Eve Online,
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10:07 - 10:10and after his death, several parts of the universe
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10:10 - 10:11were named after him.
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10:11 - 10:15And I was just recently at the Eve Online fan festival
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10:15 - 10:17in Reykjavík that was quite amazing.
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10:17 - 10:20I mean, we're talking about an experience
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10:20 - 10:23that of course can seem weird to many,
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10:23 - 10:24but that is very educational.
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10:24 - 10:27Of course, there are games that are even more educational.
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10:27 - 10:30Dwarf Fortress is like the holy grail
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10:30 - 10:32of this kind of massive multiplayer online game,
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10:32 - 10:35and in fact the two Adams brothers were in Reykjavík,
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10:35 - 10:38and they were greeted
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10:38 - 10:41by a standing ovation by all the Eve Online fans.
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10:41 - 10:43It was amazing to see. And it's a beautiful game.
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10:43 - 10:46So you start seeing here that
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10:46 - 10:48the aesthetics that are so important
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10:48 - 10:50to a museum collection like MoMA's
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10:50 - 10:53are kept alive also by the selection of these games.
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10:53 - 10:55And you know, Valve -- you know, Portal --
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10:55 - 10:57is an example of a video game in which
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10:57 - 11:00you have a certain type of violence
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11:00 - 11:02which also leads me to talk about
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11:02 - 11:04one of the biggest issues that we had to discuss
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11:04 - 11:06when we acquired the video games, what to do with violence.
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11:06 - 11:09Right? We had to make decisions.
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11:09 - 11:12At MoMA, interestingly, there's a lot of violence
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11:12 - 11:15depicted in the art part of the collection,
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11:15 - 11:18but when I came to MoMA 19 years ago, and as an Italian,
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11:18 - 11:20I said, "You know what, we need a Beretta."
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11:20 - 11:23And I was told, "No. No guns in the design collection."
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11:23 - 11:24And I was like, "Why?"
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11:24 - 11:27Interestingly, I learned that it's considered
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11:27 - 11:29that in design and in the design collection,
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11:29 - 11:30what you see is what you get.
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11:30 - 11:34So when you see a gun, it's an instrument for killing in the design collection.
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11:34 - 11:36If it's in the art collection,
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11:36 - 11:40it might be a critique of the killing instrument.
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11:40 - 11:41So it's very interesting.
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11:41 - 11:44But we are acquiring our critical dimension also in design,
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11:44 - 11:47so maybe one day we'll be able to acquire also the guns.
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11:47 - 11:50But here, in this particular case, we decided,
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11:50 - 11:51you know, with Kate and Paul,
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11:51 - 11:53that we would have no gratuitous violence.
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11:53 - 11:56So we have Portal because you shoot walls
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11:56 - 11:57in order to create new spaces.
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11:57 - 12:01We have Street Fighter II, because martial arts are good.
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12:01 - 12:02(Laughter)
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12:02 - 12:06But we don't have GTA because,
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12:06 - 12:08maybe it's my own reflection,
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12:08 - 12:10I've never been able to do anything but crashing cars
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12:10 - 12:12and shooting prostitutes and pimps.
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12:12 - 12:16So it was not very constructive. (Laughter)
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12:16 - 12:20So, I'm making fun of it, but we discussed this
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12:20 - 12:23for so many days. You have no idea.
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12:23 - 12:25And to this day, I am ambivalent,
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12:25 - 12:29but when you have instead games like Flow, there's no doubt.
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12:29 - 12:32It's like, it's about serenity and it's about sublime.
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12:32 - 12:36It's about experiencing what it means to be a sea creature.
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12:36 - 12:40Then we have a few also side-scrollers -- classical ones.
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12:40 - 12:42So it's quite a hefty collection.
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12:42 - 12:44And right now, we started with the first 14,
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12:44 - 12:46but we have several that are coming up,
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12:46 - 12:48and the reason why we haven't acquired them yet
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12:48 - 12:50is because you don't acquire just the game.
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12:50 - 12:52You acquire the relationship with the company.
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12:52 - 12:56What we want, what we aspire to, is the code.
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12:56 - 12:57It's very hard to get, of course.
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12:57 - 12:59But that's what would enable us to preserve
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12:59 - 13:01the video games for a really long time,
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13:01 - 13:02and that's what museums do.
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13:02 - 13:05They also preserve artifacts for posterity.
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13:05 - 13:07In absence of the code, because, you know,
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13:07 - 13:11video game companies are not very forthcoming in some cases,
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13:11 - 13:15in absence of that, we acquire the relationship with the company.
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13:15 - 13:16We're going to stay with them forever.
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13:16 - 13:17They're not going to get rid of us.
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13:17 - 13:21And one day, we'll get that code. (Laughter)
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13:21 - 13:24But I want to explain to you the criteria that we chose
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13:24 - 13:27for interaction design. Aesthetics are really important.
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13:27 - 13:29And I'm showing you Core War here,
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13:29 - 13:32which is an early game that takes advantage aesthetically
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13:32 - 13:34of the limitations of the processor.
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13:34 - 13:37So the kind of interferences that you see here
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13:37 - 13:40that look like beautiful barriers in the game
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13:40 - 13:44are actually a consequence of the processor's limitedness,
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13:44 - 13:47which is fantastic. So aesthetics is always important.
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13:47 - 13:51And so is space, the spatial aspect of games.
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13:51 - 13:53You know, I feel that the best video games
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13:53 - 13:57are the ones that have really savvy architects
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13:57 - 14:00that are behind them, and if they're not architects,
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14:00 - 14:02bona fide trained in architecture, they have that feeling.
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14:02 - 14:06But the spatial evolution in video games is extremely important.
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14:06 - 14:09Time. The way we experience time in video games,
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14:09 - 14:12as in other forms of interaction design,
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14:12 - 14:13is really quite amazing.
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14:13 - 14:16It can be real time or it can be the time within the game,
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14:16 - 14:18as is in Animal Crossing, where seasons
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14:18 - 14:21follow each other at their own pace.
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14:21 - 14:24So time, space, aesthetics,
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14:24 - 14:27and then, most important, behavior.
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14:27 - 14:31The real core issue of interaction design is behavior.
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14:31 - 14:34Designers that deal with interaction design behaviors
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14:34 - 14:37that go to influence the rest of our lives.
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14:37 - 14:39They're not just limited to our interaction with the screen.
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14:39 - 14:41In this case, I'm showing you Marble Madness,
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14:41 - 14:42which is a beautiful game
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14:42 - 14:46in which the controller is a big sphere that vibrates with you,
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14:46 - 14:48so you have a sphere that's moving in this landscape,
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14:48 - 14:53and the sphere, the controller itself, gives you a sense of the movement.
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14:53 - 14:55In a way, you can see how video games
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14:55 - 14:58are the purest aspect of interaction design
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14:58 - 15:02and are very useful to explain what interaction is.
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15:02 - 15:04We don't want to show the video games
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15:04 - 15:07with the paraphernalia. No arcade nostalgia.
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15:07 - 15:09If anything, we want to show the code,
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15:09 - 15:12and here you see Ben Fry's distellamap of Pac-Man,
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15:12 - 15:14of the Pac-Man code.
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15:14 - 15:18So the way we acquired the games is very interesting
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15:18 - 15:20and very unorthodox. You see them here
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15:20 - 15:24displayed alongside other examples of design,
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15:24 - 15:26furniture and other parts,
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15:26 - 15:29but there's no paraphernalia, no nostalagia,
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15:29 - 15:32only the screen and a little shelf with the controllers.
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15:32 - 15:34The controllers are, of course, part of the experience,
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15:34 - 15:36so you cannot do away with it.
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15:36 - 15:41But interestingly, this choice was not condemned
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15:41 - 15:42too vehemently by gamers.
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15:42 - 15:44I was afraid that they would kill us,
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15:44 - 15:46and instead they understood, especially
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15:46 - 15:48when I told them that I was trying to apply the same stratagem
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15:48 - 15:52that Philip Johnson applied in 1934
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15:52 - 15:54when he wanted to make people understand
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15:54 - 15:56the importance of design, and he took propeller blades
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15:56 - 15:58and pieces of machinery and
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15:58 - 16:01in the MoMA galleries he put them on white pedestals
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16:01 - 16:04against white walls, as if they were Brancusi sculptures.
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16:04 - 16:08He created this strange distance, this shock,
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16:08 - 16:12that made people realize how gorgeous formally,
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16:12 - 16:16and also important functionally, design pieces were.
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16:16 - 16:18I would like to do the same with video games.
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16:18 - 16:21By getting rid of the sticky carpets and the cigarette butts
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16:21 - 16:24and everything else that we might remember from our childhood,
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16:24 - 16:28I want people to understand
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16:28 - 16:30that those are important forms of design.
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16:30 - 16:33And in a way, the video games, the fonts and everything else
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16:33 - 16:36lead us to make people understand
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16:36 - 16:38a wider meaning for design.
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16:38 - 16:40One of my dream acquisitions,
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16:40 - 16:42which has been on hold for a few years
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16:42 - 16:45but now will come back on the front burner,
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16:45 - 16:47is a 747.
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16:47 - 16:50I would like to acquire it, but without owning it.
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16:50 - 16:53I don't want it to be at MoMA and possessed by MoMA.
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16:53 - 16:54I want it to keep flying.
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16:54 - 16:58So it's an acquisition where MoMA makes an arrangement
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16:58 - 17:03with an airline and keeps the Boeing 747 flying.
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17:03 - 17:06And the same with the "@" sign that we acquired a few years ago.
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17:06 - 17:08It was the first example of an acquisition of something
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17:08 - 17:09that is in the public domain.
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17:09 - 17:11And what I say to people, it's almost as if
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17:11 - 17:13a butterfly were flying by
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17:13 - 17:16and we captured the shadow on the wall,
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17:16 - 17:18and just we're showing the shadow.
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17:18 - 17:20So in a way, we're showing a manifestation
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17:20 - 17:22of something that is truly important
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17:22 - 17:26and that is part of our identity but that nobody can have.
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17:26 - 17:28And it's too long to explain the acquisition,
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17:28 - 17:30but if you want to go on the MoMA blog,
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17:30 - 17:32there's a long post where I explain why
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17:32 - 17:35it's such a great example of design.
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17:35 - 17:38Along the way, I've had to burn a few chairs. You know?
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17:38 - 17:42I've had to do away with a few concepts of design past.
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17:42 - 17:45But I see that people are coming along,
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17:45 - 17:47that the audiences, paradoxically,
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17:47 - 17:50are much more responsive and much more understanding
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17:50 - 17:54of this expansion of design than some of my colleagues are.
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17:54 - 17:55Design is truly everywhere,
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17:55 - 17:58and design is as important as anything,
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17:58 - 18:01and I'm so glad that, because of its diversity
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18:01 - 18:03and because of its centrality to our lives,
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18:03 - 18:05many more people are coming to it
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18:05 - 18:07as a profession, as a passion,
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18:07 - 18:10and as, very simply, part of their own culture.
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18:10 - 18:11Thank you very much.
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18:11 - 18:15(Applause)
- Title:
- Why I brought Pac-Man to MoMA
- Speaker:
- Paola Antonelli
- Description:
-
When the Museum of Modern Art's senior curator of architecture and design announced the acquisition of 14 video games in 2012, "all hell broke loose." In this far-ranging, entertaining, and deeply insightful talk, Paola Antonelli explains why she's delighted to challenge preconceived ideas about art and galleries, and describes her burning wish to help establish a broader understanding of design.
- Video Language:
- English
- Team:
- closed TED
- Project:
- TEDTalks
- Duration:
- 18:42
Jenny Zurawell edited English subtitles for Why I brought Pac-Man to MoMA | ||
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for Why I brought Pac-Man to MoMA | ||
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for Why I brought Pac-Man to MoMA | ||
Morton Bast edited English subtitles for Why I brought Pac-Man to MoMA | ||
Thu-Huong Ha approved English subtitles for Why I brought Pac-Man to MoMA | ||
Thu-Huong Ha accepted English subtitles for Why I brought Pac-Man to MoMA | ||
Thu-Huong Ha approved English subtitles for Why I brought Pac-Man to MoMA | ||
Thu-Huong Ha edited English subtitles for Why I brought Pac-Man to MoMA |