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>> Vance Stevens: We're live!

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Hello, everybody. Somehow my video disappeared.

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It's there, but that's my - it's just in avatar format.

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Plus does that every now and then.

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OK, well anyway, this is Vance Stevens in Abu Dhabi..., no, sorry, in Al Ain.

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I'm living in Al Ain now, I forget where I'm living.

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Today is the 8th of December.

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They move me around so much, you know.

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And, anyway, it's the 8th of December 2013.

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We're talking with a good friend of mine, Phil Hubbard,

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from Stanford University in Palo Alto, California.

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And he's been doing some really neat stuff in Cal.

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I've known him for a long time in the Cal Intersection TESOL.

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>> Phil Hubbard: Since we were kids.

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>> Stevens: We were, it was like 20 years ago[br][Hubbard laughs]

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>> Hubbard: reaching 30 [check][br][background voice]

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>> Stevens: Someone has a -- someone needs to have a headset on.

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[missed words] is muted.

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Errh not sure: it could be someone listening to the stream.

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Yeah, if you're listening to the stream -- OK.

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The echo has gone away [check]

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Someone has corrected it, that's good.

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All right, well, OK. Someone has announced in the stream chat that they're listening to it there.

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So that's good, everything seems to be working.

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We're doing a Hangout on Air, as we often do.

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We're streaming it on webheadsinaction.org/live

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At the moment we have six people in the hangout,

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there's room for four more.

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So if anyone is listening on the stream and would like to join us, they can.

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And right now we've got Claire Siskin and Jim Buckingham, Rita Zeinstejer and

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let's see, and also Rob, Rob is there, and me, Vance Stevens. Rob Permanus, is that correct?

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Correct me if I'm wrong. Permanus, Permanus - how do you pronounce your name?

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>> Hubbard: You have to unmute him <i>chuckles</i>

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>> Stevens: it's Perhamus -- Perhamus, OK, Good, I'll never forget that again, all right.

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Thank you very much, Rob. Rob is an occasional participant in our hangouts.

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Well Phil, take it away and anybody who wants to --

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by the way, you're all muted by default when you come into the hangout.

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You can unmute yourself.

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If you're going to unmute yourself and talk, please mute yourself again,

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so we don't get keyboard noises and things like that.

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And there's Elizabeth Anne, also shown up from Grenoble in France.

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And Halima Ozimova in Tashkent has also joined us, I see.

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>> Hubbard [check] I think we're great, well, hello, everybody.

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It's Good Morning for me, a little early in the morning,

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but the sun is beginning to show through the back window here.

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Thank you all for being here from all over the world.

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What I wanted to do today is talk about largely an idea and a project that I've been working on

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for the last couple of years, very sporadically.

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Unfortunately I get interrupted easily, as I'm sure all of you do,

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so what started out as a -- what I hoped was going to be a much more robust collection of materials

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has turned out to be a little more anemic

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but I still think that I have enough here that I can demonstrate the idea

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and especially share my thoughts about how to go

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about dealing with this relatively new notion of curation,

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although in some ways, maybe it's just a label for an old notion that we've had for quite some time.

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So, let me give you a little bit of the background,

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like several of the things I've worked on in the last few years,

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like learner training.

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This is something that has emerged out of my classroom experience

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with an advanced listening and vocabulary class,

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and I see Vance is showing some of the slides now.

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The class is for graduate students at Stanford

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and it's a really nice sandbox for playing with ideas,

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because these are -- well, they're all in graduate school already,

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they're, for the most part, in the high 90's onwards to the 100s in the TOEFL iBT

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so they really are advanced in that sense.

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And many of them are taking the course because we require them to do it.

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So they're kind of a captive audience

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but it's also a small course: we have a maximum 14 students in it

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and it allows me to not only play around with ideas, but get a chance to talk to the students afterward,

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not usually with formal research, but just informally as part of our normal tutorial sessions

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and find out what they thought about them and what I can do to make them work a little better.

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So, the problem that I noticed - an important part of this class

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is that students do independent projects

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and those independent projects are supposed to be for a minimum of three hours a week.

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Sounds like I am getting some echo in the background, but I will keep pushing through here..

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Uhh.. those projects are for three hours a week

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and they are responsible for doing the selection of the material

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with my help and with my guidance both before and after.

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And over the years, I have discovered that they are actually not really good at that.

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What they are good at is finding material that is interesting to them.

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But, they are not necessarily good at finding material that helps them.

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They discover that on their own a little bit down the road

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and often it doesn't become clear to both of us

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because I have a very slow learning curve and quickly forget things.

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So, I get to the end of the class and then I go

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"Oh, I should have provided them with a little more guidance.".

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So, about 2 years ago, I started doing this

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and it came as a juxtaposition of a couple of things.

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First of all, just my own general interest in the development of autonomy had been growing

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and as I have gone out and collected materials that I would just use in class,

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it was pretty clear to me that there is a huge amount of really interesting materials out there.

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And people have been collecting these for a while

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and teachers have been building lessons out of them

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-- sometimes pretty sophisiticated lessons --

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but I needed something that students could work with on their own.

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And so, I wanted to find a way to help them without just my advice

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as to how to look for materials, to actually start collecting materials

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in ways that would still give them quite a bit of freedom of choice

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but would also make it better as a language learning experience.

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As part of this course, they are also required to build vocabulary.

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They have to identify at least 35 new words and phrases every week,

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from the material they are using.

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So, this is a bit of the backdrop.

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In 2011, I came across a book, kind of independently.

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It was just recommended to me, for some reason, by Amazon:

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you know how that works.

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And the book was called 'Curation Nation'

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and there is, I think, a slide there perhaps somewhere, it's like the sixth slide.

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There's a -- if you want to pop that up.

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If not, it's just a picture of the book.

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But it's a book it's a book by Steven Rosembaum.

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>>Stevens: I will. Could I --

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I am supposed to be able to mute mikes, as the owner of the chat,

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but I am unable to mute Halima's for some reason

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and that is where the echo is coming from.

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So, Halima, could I ask if you could click on the "mute" on your mike when not speaking?

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And if you want to unmute, you can always speak to us.

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That is where our echo is coming from.

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And okay, I will do what Phil has asked me to do and pull up 'Curation Nation'.

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>> Hubbard: <i>laughs</i> Alright, thanks.

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Anyway, this is not a book about education by any stretch,

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but it did come up with this notion that we have so much material on-line now

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and we are having so much difficulty in sorting out

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what the good stuff is from the chaff, for any reason, for news and so on.

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Now we have all these feeds:

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You know, if you -- those of you on Twitter or any of the other networks that have lots of feeds,

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you get the -- even Google+ -- you get feeds from your friends,

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you get feeds from people that whoever runs the site thinks might be interesting to you

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and you are just overwhelmed with an enormous amount of material.

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Some of it's pretty cool.

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Much of it is stuff you wouldn't find on your own and that's great.

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But when you've got the specific target of trying to improve your language

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-- and of course, the group that I work with doesn't actually do a whole lot with social media

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because they don't have time as full-time graduate students --

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I am lucky if I can squeeze a few hours out of them to do the work

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that they need for the course that they are taking for credit from me.

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So, this notion of curation is based roughly

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on the idea of what people do in museums and in art galleries.

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You get an expert, somebody who actually knows a fair amount about a particular area

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and you have that expert create collections, add value to them in one way or another,

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and then you release those collections for the consumer - whoever it might be --

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to have a look at and to interact with.

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So, the key difference between this and what a lot of people are doing with this material

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-- you may have heard concepts like "digital curation",

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which can just mean curating digital materials

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but often means that computers are doing the job for you.

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Google news is a really good example of that:

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I find a lot of interesting stuff in there, I can even ask it to find particular categories,

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but it's still being selected without any human intervention.

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You compare that with something like Huffington Post,

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which is material that's been brought in by people who are

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-- in some cases, they're producing it, but in other cases they are aggregating it

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and trying to make sense out of it for the rest of us.

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So, a key point here is that curation isn't the same as aggregation, or listing, or tagging.

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It's okay to use that term for that but that's not the way I am using it.

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There is a really nice quote in my slide there that -- I think it's maybe --

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two more slides down, Vance. One more. There you go. Past curation.. yeah, that one.

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So this is - it's maybe a little mean, but I think it's right on point

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that when you just get collections of things, you've just got collections of things

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and its not necessarily anything other than "these are things that I liked"

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or "these are things that I think you will like".

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So, I prefer the next slide: you want to go to it, Vance?

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This is more the way I see curation,

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where you collect material, you organize it,

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there is even the potentially a path, well, there is certainly a path

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through the individual material groups,

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and then mayble even a path through the groups,

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although at the moment I haven't done that last point.

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So, this is, you know, kind of captures the idea that I want to talk about today.

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Curation, importantly, is not the same as creation or recreation

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or adaptation or sampling, or synthesizing.

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It's taking the material and adding something to it, maybe just a commentary,

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maybe just collecting it into some logical framework or logical sequence.

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So, when I took that idea, which I was getting through the Curation Nation book,

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and thought about it with respect to the material that I was using,

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I decided to experiment with that and come up

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with some collections of materials from -- as you probably know from the title here and also the PDF,

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if you've had a look at it -- comes from TED Talks.

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And in a moment I will talk about why I think TED talks is so good for that

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but at the base level, these were very popular with my students.

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What the students were doing more--

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they were having trouble coming up with good ones.

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They would always pick what was interesting

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and then often come back to me and say

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"Well, this was interesting, but I had trouble understanding it because my --

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the accent of the speaker was not easy for me to understand."

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or "I had trouble understanding it because -- it was interesting

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because I didn't know anything about it and I didn't have the background

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so there was a whole bunch of new vocabulary."

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So t could be interesting for all sorts of reasons,

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but it wasn't interesting for the right reasons,

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for what we think is good for independent language learning.

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Again, this doesn't mean that all of those collections, with the help of a teacher,

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couldn't have been very valuable in a classroom

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and especially getting to the content for connecting to discussions.

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But that's not the same thing as letting students work on their own.

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So, I do want to emphasis that.

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My perspective here, at least initially,

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is getting students to be able to do these things outside of class

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and then just come back and report on them

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rather than having something we do in class

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or that everybody does the same homework assignment on.

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Alright, so that's the set-up for what I believe curation should be,

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or at least can be, within this framework.

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So, I think what I'll do here is pause for a second and see if anybody has questions.

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and bring it up by trying to look at some of the chat pieces here

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Uh -- [<i>he hums</i>]

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[reading:] "What is meant by sign..."

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OK, so some of these chats are to each other about the chats.

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So I got to go to the other window

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Uh -- anybody -- anybody have any questions here?

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If not, I'll continue on.

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>> Stevens: I have to admit I have trouble following all the chats.

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There's also a back channel here, with Google: some people could be in that one.

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I never see that one until I get off of --

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>> Hubbard: Well, the last chat -- the last piece on the group chat said:

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"Yeah, we agree with you, Phil."

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So: that's great.

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I'll stop [check] there and if everybody agrees with me, I don't really need to --

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>> Stevens: you need go no further [br]>> Hubbard: [overlapping, inaudible]

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No [<i>Hubbard and Stevens laugh</i>]

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>> Hubbard: OK, well, so, again, that's kind of the background,

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this idea that I needed to start collecting things.

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So, I'm still kind of almost two years in the past, now,

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telling you the story of how I got to where I got here.

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So I picked TED talks and I started going into TED talks.

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I wasn't quite sure how I wanted to collect them

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but I knew there were some of the ones that <i>I</i> liked

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and I also knew some characteristics that I thought were useful for the students.

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I thought it was important to collect them into themes.

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You know, we've known for a long time that if you have related content,

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that it kind of feeds -- the materials feed one another

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and the students get probably a better and a richer experience,

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they get more natural repetition and key vocabulary

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than if you have people just kind of jumping out piecemeal

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with unconnected bits of material.

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I -- in the 1980's I was forced to teach a course with a book I don't remember the name of that.

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I do remember the author, but I'm not going to mention it on air.

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It was a reading textbook and the reading textbook had really interesting little chapters,

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at least most of them were interesting to me,

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but, you know, one chapter would be on the Olympics

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and the next chapter would be on sea-horses.

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And it's that kind of jumping around -- we typically don't do that with textbooks anymore.

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And yet when we turn students loose, a lot of times, that's what <i>they</i> decide to do.

0:18:19.584,0:18:22.829
So again, even though I had been giving them guidance, saying:

0:18:22.839,0:18:28.462
"Well, collect several bits of, you know, pieces of material, videos or podcasts

0:18:28.462,0:18:31.050
that are related to one another in some way,"

0:18:31.806,0:18:35.553
they wouldn't follow that advice, because it hadn't been done for them.

0:18:35.553,0:18:42.310
They were still kind of chasing around, looking for the spots that just seemed interesting.

0:18:44.428,0:18:49.208
OK. I think what I'll do is tell you what the

0:18:50.112,0:18:53.592
-- at a kind of the abstract level, what I came up with

0:18:53.592,0:18:56.469
about what the curator's role should be.

0:18:57.255,0:19:02.039
And again, this is specifically for this target audience,

0:19:02.039,0:19:05.950
but I think it can be tweaked and extended to other ones.

0:19:06.548,0:19:10.976
The first thing you have to do is collect the stuff: you want digital materials,

0:19:11.206,0:19:14.342
you want to organize them in some way:

0:19:15.278,0:19:18.059
mine are organized systematically, but you could do

0:19:18.250,0:19:21.119
-- you know, you could take news stories and do them chronologically.

0:19:22.972,0:19:28.712
You need to sequence them and this is where a lot of collections fall short.

0:19:28.732,0:19:32.150
They're just -- they're either randomly sequenced

0:19:32.470,0:19:34.180
or they're not sequenced at all.

0:19:34.751,0:19:40.448
And I think it is possible, as, you know, as the resident [check] expert, the teacher,

0:19:40.921,0:19:41.923
to be able to say:

0:19:41.923,0:19:48.039
"Here's a way to move so that the earlier ones might be a little bit easier to follow

0:19:48.549,0:19:53.496
and the later ones are better understood if you've done the earlier ones."

0:19:54.765,0:19:56.653
The fourth point there that

0:19:56.653,0:19:58.350
-- on the slide that Vance has --

0:19:58.350,0:20:01.791
is the hardest part of all of this,

0:20:02.563,0:20:07.479
and that is trying to get this material levelled in some way.

0:20:08.465,0:20:12.049
Wilfried Decoo in 2010 wrote a book, it's at the end

0:20:12.049,0:20:15.115
-- the reference is at the end of the slideshow here --

0:20:15.840,0:20:17.528
on systemization.

0:20:17.540,0:20:20.248
And it was kind of a return to the idea that

0:20:20.618,0:20:24.057
even if you're using authentic material,

0:20:24.057,0:20:27.410
and especially if you're trying to create course material yourself,

0:20:27.940,0:20:35.059
that you need to have a kind of natural development of that material

0:20:35.059,0:20:38.564
from, you know, easier at lower levels, to harder

0:20:38.949,0:20:43.671
and he went to the point of even talking about keeping databases

0:20:43.681,0:20:45.156
that were very finely tuned,

0:20:45.156,0:20:50.289
so you would be able to pull out lexical items and grammatical points and so on

0:20:50.289,0:20:54.224
in a scope and sequence that fit

0:20:54.224,0:20:56.640
what we thought we knew about language learning.

0:20:57.776,0:21:01.588
And you know his -- I think his perspective is

0:21:01.588,0:21:05.546
what I think is a reasonable one to bring up again,

0:21:05.592,0:21:11.317
because I think we are often not cognizant of the difference between

0:21:11.317,0:21:16.572
accessible and barely accessible and inaccessible materials,

0:21:16.572,0:21:19.549
especially now that students can go in and, you know,

0:21:19.549,0:21:27.174
get their first-language subtitles and transcripts for a lot of these materials

0:21:27.174,0:21:32.854
and then have the illusion that they are actually understanding the English, in this case,

0:21:34.115,0:21:38.173
and that they're building their English proficiency, where they --

0:21:38.173,0:21:44.132
-- they may be to some extent, but probably not to the extent that they think they are.

0:21:44.148,0:21:49.700
So there is the, you know, that idea of --

0:21:51.270,0:21:54.711
well, in Decoo's book of fine tuning material.

0:21:54.711,0:21:58.265
That doesn't work for me because at the levels I have,

0:21:58.265,0:22:01.301
first of all, I have mixed-level classes to some degree,

0:22:01.301,0:22:03.437
although they are all fairly advanced.

0:22:03.437,0:22:07.878
They come from different backgrounds, I don't know what they know going in.

0:22:08.570,0:22:13.225
So it's a little tricky to do it in the way that he likes.

0:22:13.640,0:22:19.266
But it still gave me the impetus to try and see if I could come up with something,

0:22:19.266,0:22:21.970
you know, I'll show you that in a bit.

0:22:22.555,0:22:27.901
So, the last part of that, then, once you can give at least some kind of level information,

0:22:27.901,0:22:34.435
is to go ahead and then present your pedagogical support,

0:22:34.435,0:22:36.066
whatever it might be.

0:22:36.850,0:22:44.765
This is fairly open-ended, I mean teachers can get -- and often do get -- into material

0:22:44.765,0:22:48.065
and they start stripping out what they think are key vocabulary,

0:22:48.065,0:22:52.777
they produce, you know, pre-listening activities,

0:22:52.777,0:22:56.745
they have post-listening activities,

0:22:56.745,0:22:58.151
they have discussion activities.

0:22:58.151,0:23:02.223
All these are great, but they're based kind of on a classroom model

0:23:02.223,0:23:06.587
and even more important: they take a lot of time away

0:23:06.587,0:23:11.287
from the job of collecting this material.

0:23:11.287,0:23:15.325
So if you put the hours into making full lessons,

0:23:15.535,0:23:20.659
you end up not having the time to even produce as much as I have,

0:23:20.679,0:23:23.019
which, as I mentioned, is not as much as I'd like.

0:23:23.984,0:23:30.364
OK, so that's the curator's role and then -- Vance, if you could go to the next slide.

0:23:32.632,0:23:33.708
Did we lose you?

0:23:33.990,0:23:36.493
>> Jim Buckingham [check]: Hi Phil, I just wanted to add to something you--

0:23:36.493,0:23:37.298
>> Hubbard: Yes, go ahead

0:23:37.468,0:23:38.835
>> Buckingham: Just because of my background:

0:23:38.835,0:23:42.315
I used to work in museums[br]>> Hubbard: Oh, fantastic

0:23:42.344,0:23:44.974
>> Buckingham: in education and curation[br]>> Hubbard: A real curator!

0:23:44.992,0:23:49.311
>> Buckingham: Yeah. Just one other item I would add to the list

0:23:49.311,0:23:53.027
and I made a note of it in the chat section

0:23:53.027,0:23:57.493
and that's the -- often without knowing it we're making assumptions about our audience.

0:23:58.108,0:24:01.898
>> Hubbard: Ah![br]>> Buckingham: When we're selecting things,

0:24:02.271,0:24:08.871
whether they be objects for display or -- like in the museums -- or

0:24:08.871,0:24:12.502
objects for presentations to students, we're often unknowingly making assumptions

0:24:14.807,0:24:19.404
and I think it's a really important thing to know, to challenge ourselves

0:24:19.404,0:24:24.169
about the assumptions we're making in making those selections, those choices, as experts.

0:24:25.059,0:24:27.409
>> Hubbard: Yeah, I mean that's a very good point

0:24:27.422,0:24:34.204
and I have to -- as individuals, the students always change in my classes.

0:24:34.706,0:24:38.776
As a group, you know, I get to know the group better.

0:24:38.776,0:24:41.911
So I think, in this very targeted group, I can --

0:24:42.215,0:24:47.501
I can come up with at least, initially, some likely ones,

0:24:47.721,0:24:51.349
but I do in fact ask them for feedback on --

0:24:52.248,0:24:56.428
Well, first of all, I give them choices and then I ask them for feedback

0:24:56.450,0:25:01.795
both on, you know, what they chose and why, of the ones I selected for them,

0:25:01.795,0:25:05.816
and also what else they might like to see.

0:25:06.712,0:25:09.048
So it becomes a <i>little bit</i> od a dialog,

0:25:09.063,0:25:13.252
and that could be even more of a dialog, you know, if you have --

0:25:13.559,0:25:17.375
the way my class is structured, again, because it's so small,

0:25:17.388,0:25:23.568
we do a lot both within class discussion and with the individual tutorials.

0:25:23.568,0:25:28.335
But if you got a larger class and you got a discussion board or a wiki or something like that

0:25:28.335,0:25:32.402
where, you know, students can -- can chime in more regularly,

0:25:32.402,0:25:35.071
then you could get some information.

0:25:35.071,0:25:42.596
I also haven't formally surveyed them, so that would be useful too. I --

0:25:42.596,0:25:46.832
>> Buckingham: You're inviting their feedback to inform --[br]>> Hubbard: Very much so. Yeah.

0:25:46.832,0:25:49.637
>> Buckingham: Yeah --[br]>> Hubbard: But not as richly as I could.

0:25:49.637,0:25:54.600
So one idea I had was that, you know, like you've seen probably in museums,

0:25:56.450,0:26:02.146
sometimes they have the displays but they'll also have, you know,

0:26:02.155,0:26:04.710
places where people can, you know, write cards

0:26:04.710,0:26:08.744
and make suggestions and say things and drop those off

0:26:08.744,0:26:15.303
and I think, probably increasingly, we'll see museum displays

0:26:15.303,0:26:24.598
where the, you know, the viewers' thoughts are right up there and accessible to other viewers

0:26:24.598,0:26:26.875
when they go to look at the material.

0:26:27.765,0:26:36.956
So I think you're making a really good point and, you know, this is the --

0:26:37.755,0:26:42.788
figuring out exactly the role of the students who are still kind of developing,

0:26:42.788,0:26:48.598
you want to meet them half way but you also, in the curation model, I think,

0:26:48.598,0:26:52.490
want to be careful about the difference between curation and crowdsourcing,

0:26:53.520,0:26:56.068
because I've had students come up with some materials

0:26:56.068,0:26:57.755
that they thought were really exciting,

0:26:58.109,0:26:58.359
but when <i>I</i> looked at it, I could see what the problems were in terms of the --

0:27:04.248,0:27:07.042
the use of it by other students.

0:27:08.155,0:27:10.749
>> Buckingham: Now I take your point: it's you acting as the filter.

0:27:10.959,0:27:12.484
>> Buckingham: and finding --[br]>> Hubbard: Yeah, and that's --

0:27:12.511,0:27:16.946
and again that's -- and again that's the -- this is the kind of, to me, this the curation model.

0:27:17.354,0:27:19.426
>> Buckingham: Yeah[br]>> Hubbard: The crowdsourcing model

0:27:19.426,0:27:21.852
is a great model too, it's just a different model

0:27:21.852,0:27:24.981
and it may work better in some cases.

0:27:24.981,0:27:28.426
Of course it also depends on, you know,

0:27:28.426,0:27:32.788
I've been to museums that I didn't think were very well run, were very well organized

0:27:32.791,0:27:34.046
or were confusing.

0:27:34.046,0:27:34.851
So --[br]>> Buckingham: Yeah.

0:27:34.851,0:27:37.056
>> Hubbard: as soon as you have the human expert coming in,

0:27:37.405,0:27:40.693
they may not be as much of an expert as they think they are.

0:27:41.178,0:27:44.180
That's probably true of me, in fact.[br]>> Buckingham: Yeah, and there are lots of people [check]

0:27:44.180,0:27:47.537
a lot of examples of museums, because I'm into curating things

0:27:48.783,0:27:54.622
and then I'm finding out that the interpretations that they were expecting audiences to have

0:27:54.622,0:27:56.452
were completely off-base.

0:27:56.721,0:27:58.624
>> Hubbard: Yeah.[br]>> Buckingham: I think that's a good example

0:27:58.624,0:28:05.901
of big money going into these exhibitions and then being interpreted in a completely unexpected --

0:28:05.901,0:28:09.318
>> Hubbard: Yeah, well, the good news here is, I have no big money.

0:28:09.318,0:28:13.184
I mostly have no money at all for this. So -- [he laughs]

0:28:13.660,0:28:18.035
It's also, the nice thing is, you know, compared to the museum,

0:28:18.035,0:28:23.779
where you have all of these Unkosten [? check] to putting the material in,

0:28:24.025,0:28:26.063
once you have something, you start a web page:

0:28:26.063,0:28:34.435
if it is a disaster, or if it needs to be tweaked or significantly changed,

0:28:34.435,0:28:38.265
it's possible to do that just by finding a little bit of time.

0:28:40.726,0:28:44.331
[Buckingham and Hubbard overlap][br]>> Buckingham: It's just [missed words check]

0:28:44.331,0:28:48.094
There's even an opportunity, actually, in, as an expert,

0:28:48.094,0:28:52.110
putting together a series of well-chosen articles

0:28:52.110,0:28:57.165
and then inviting students to assemble them and put them into a -- into an order or sequence,

0:28:57.165,0:29:01.309
and to try and explain the rationale that they've used,

0:29:01.309,0:29:03.255
what connections they've seen in the works.

0:29:03.255,0:29:05.960
It's just another angle to it I sure would --

0:29:05.960,0:29:08.911
>> Hubbard: No, it's a very good angle and in fact, you know,

0:29:08.911,0:29:16.363
as I've moved through stages in probably about 15 years of teaching this course,

0:29:16.363,0:29:23.279
I've tried to give students more independence but also to give them guidance in that independence

0:29:23.279,0:29:28.371
and one of the -- what I hope I'm doing with the material I have,

0:29:28.371,0:29:30.667
I do show them how I put it together.

0:29:30.667,0:29:34.766
And I hope I'm, you know, kind of modeling curation for them as well.

0:29:35.627,0:29:41.664
The idea of getting them to maybe do a little curated piece of their own,

0:29:42.771,0:29:45.914
that could be an interesting final project for the course.

0:29:45.914,0:29:48.982
I will be revisiting it again in Spring.

0:29:49.658,0:29:52.731
I'll be away from it in Winter quarter here

0:29:52.731,0:29:54.677
because we have -- we teach 10-week quarters.

0:29:55.677,0:29:59.355
But that's a possibility for Spring, actually.

0:29:59.355,0:30:04.231
It could also greatly enrich the collection of material that's available to other students.

0:30:04.231,0:30:08.111
Again, as long as I'm there to be a kind of a filter,

0:30:08.111,0:30:10.566
rather than just releasing these into the wild.

0:30:11.504,0:30:14.813
Or if I do release them, you know, making sure that students know the difference

0:30:14.813,0:30:18.486
between ones that are student-produced and the once that I produced

0:30:18.486,0:30:21.756
and why, you know, I did mine one way.

0:30:21.756,0:30:26.381
Then they can -- they can judge to some extent, you know,

0:30:26.381,0:30:32.144
whether they think the rationale used by their peers, you know, was useful for them.

0:30:32.144,0:30:35.683
So, that's a nice idea, I'm making a note of that.

0:30:40.174,0:30:42.468
OK, shall I move on?

0:30:42.468,0:30:48.754
>> [Stevens? check] Yeah. I'm aware of a podcast - there's the slide on I'm talking --

0:30:48.754,0:30:50.669
>> Hubbard: Yeah, thanks[br][they laugh]

0:30:50.669,0:30:56.384
>> Stevens (?): I listened to a podcast where some educators had gone to Europe,

0:30:56.384,0:30:59.005
probably on a junket but ostensibly[br][Hubbard laughs]

0:30:59.005,0:31:01.594
>> Stevens: to visit museums and find out, you know,

0:31:01.594,0:31:05.349
especially ones that had audience attract--

0:31:05.349,0:31:09.204
you know, the idea was that museums, people didn't have to go there,

0:31:09.204,0:31:10.380
they have to attract people.

0:31:10.380,0:31:13.986
So what do they do to attract the people, as opposed to schools?

0:31:13.986,0:31:17.841
And then, how can we design our classroom environment

0:31:17.841,0:31:19.294
so it's more like a museum?

0:31:19.294,0:31:23.631
So that was actually a serious project and I'll never remember --

0:31:23.631,0:31:30.044
I'll never forget how to get it back, but maybe I will tell you in Portmont [check].

0:31:30.044,0:31:32.599
>> Hubbard: Ah OK? So that was good.

0:31:33.080,0:31:38.012
Yeah, so Vance has put up the slide that I wanted to make a point of here,

0:31:38.012,0:31:41.871
because there are a couple of things that are important about this slide, I think.

0:31:42.563,0:31:45.804
The first is, even though these are just little bullet points,

0:31:45.804,0:31:51.668
that actually took me a while to kind of figure this out, maybe because I'm slow, but --

0:31:52.298,0:31:54.842
Oop, Vance, I lost the slide.[br]>> Stevens: it is here again? >> Hubbard: thanks.

0:31:58.025,0:32:01.920
Because of all the other distractions I have

0:32:03.381,0:32:10.931
and because of other elements of where I am and what the -- sort of the visibility,

0:32:11.300,0:32:18.985
the first thing I have to make sure is that anything that I curate is actually legally available.

0:32:20.969,0:32:26.269
And a certain amount of stuff that I had used years before, even in my own class,

0:32:27.238,0:32:32.877
I wasn't quite so sure about what the legality was, I think, in the early days of the internet.

0:32:33.861,0:32:38.880
Even now with YouTube I try to be careful about making sure that

0:32:38.880,0:32:43.133
what I've found is something that whoever put it up either has the right to

0:32:43.133,0:32:45.597
or they're reposting something that is --

0:32:45.597,0:32:50.785
that's already got a Creative Commons license or something like that.

0:32:51.166,0:32:55.123
So, especially for something I'm going to put some time into here,

0:32:55.123,0:32:59.430
I want to make sure that what I've got is something I can use.

0:32:59.430,0:33:01.621
I also always want to make it freely available

0:33:01.621,0:33:05.464
because my students have friends back in their home countries

0:33:05.464,0:33:10.798
and they have even colleagues here who don't end up taking my class

0:33:11.644,0:33:17.455
and I have colleagues that are interested in using some of the material I do,

0:33:17.455,0:33:23.949
so everything I do in this kind of a project, I try to make sure it's freely available on the Web.

0:33:24.769,0:33:29.036
Vance, we lost the slide again, or at least I did.[br][incomprehensible metallic voice - check]

0:33:29.036,0:33:32.712
>> Hubbard: Oh wait, is this Halima saying something? Uh, you know--

0:33:32.712,0:33:37.752
>> Stevens: No, Halima is unmuting herself as soon as she comes into the chat.

0:33:37.752,0:33:41.633
So I'm going to have to -- Halima, can you mute your microphone?

0:33:42.571,0:33:44.194
Because it's causing feedback.

0:33:45.009,0:33:50.652
And I hope you can figure that out, and meanwhile we put this back.

0:33:50.667,0:33:54.120
Is it back yet [missed words check] Phil?[br]>> Hubbard: Yeah, that's great. >> Vance: OK

0:33:55.012,0:33:59.666
>> Hubbard: Yeah, so the "freely and legally available" is an important quality

0:33:59.666,0:34:03.582
and you know, TED talks obviously are ideal for that.

0:34:04.458,0:34:06.373
They're likely to be interesting.

0:34:06.373,0:34:09.829
Again that's something -- oops, lost the slide again,

0:34:10.705,0:34:12.604
but I'll just go ahead and walk through these.

0:34:13.050,0:34:19.808
"Likely to be interesting", I guess that connects to a previous commentary [laughs]

0:34:19.808,0:34:22.506
that we don't always know what students think are interesting,

0:34:23.429,0:34:25.675
but I try to pick things that I think are,

0:34:25.675,0:34:29.839
you know, have a good chance of being interesting for the students.

0:34:31.639,0:34:37.032
The good technical quality: there is a lot of stuff, obviously,

0:34:37.032,0:34:44.375
available on the Web that's not, that's interesting and freely and legally available,

0:34:45.328,0:34:51.656
but the technical quality is such that it may be less ideal for language learning.

0:34:53.254,0:34:57.517
We're getting better at that now, certainly, than in the old days,

0:34:57.517,0:35:04.043
but when - when you're looking for material, if it's been overly compressed,

0:35:04.043,0:35:07.392
or it was done with devices that weren't that good in the first place,

0:35:08.607,0:35:13.418
it doesn't necessarily lend itself as well for language learning.

0:35:13.956,0:35:18.189
Stability is a really important point, because I don't want to do this

0:35:18.804,0:35:24.400
and then find out what I did is not available the next time I teach the class,

0:35:24.400,0:35:26.253
or even the next week.

0:35:26.729,0:35:32.188
So again, finding material that has -- either has been up for a while

0:35:32.188,0:35:35.562
or that you know is going to continue to be up for a while.

0:35:36.522,0:35:41.262
The 5th one is a -- you know, people have different views of this,

0:35:41.262,0:35:47.670
but because I'm so tied in with vocabulary development along with comprehension,

0:35:48.546,0:35:55.584
to me it's critical to have captions at least -- [coughs] excuse me, losing my voice here --

0:35:58.333,0:36:03.074
to have captions at least and ideally, to have transcripts.

0:36:03.074,0:36:08.933
And one of the reasons for transcripts is to be able to try to use some material

0:36:09.609,0:36:12.837
which I'll show you in a moment here some of you are probably familiar with:

0:36:12.837,0:36:16.182
the vocabulary profile from lextutor.

0:36:16.766,0:36:22.106
By using -- by dumping the transcript into that, you can get an idea of levelling.

0:36:23.749,0:36:25.525
And if you don't have a transcript,

0:36:25.525,0:36:29.821
then you have to kind of use just intuitive feels for what's the level.

0:36:29.821,0:36:34.194
Then I've personally seen some pretty significant problems with that.

0:36:35.058,0:36:37.755
I may mention one towards the end here

0:36:37.755,0:36:42.397
when I get to some of the alternative sites I know that already exist for this.

0:36:43.182,0:36:45.411
And then ideally, if you can find complem --

0:36:45.411,0:36:47.341
something that has complementary materials.

0:36:47.694,0:36:51.930
Again, in the case of TED talks, you've got materials that are --

0:36:52.837,0:36:59.487
you have a brief summary of whatever the talk is, right there available,

0:36:59.487,0:37:02.246
you don't have to create it as the curator,

0:37:02.246,0:37:06.463
you've got the bio of the speaker, which is good background information,

0:37:06.939,0:37:11.979
and in some cases you even have -- I think, what do they call it, TED Ed or something --

0:37:11.979,0:37:17.160
there are some TED talks that even have some additional material that --

0:37:17.160,0:37:22.277
that people have added to them, in the way of discussion questions and things like that.

0:37:23.015,0:37:28.138
TED's not as rich as, say, you know, if you're doing a newscast for example,

0:37:28.138,0:37:34.395
and you might have several written forms of the same news story

0:37:34.395,0:37:35.910
that you can use for back up:

0:37:35.910,0:37:37.363
it's not quite as rich as that,

0:37:37.363,0:37:44.202
but it's still pretty good with giving you some of these complementary materials, besides the video itself.

0:37:46.786,0:37:50.293
OK. You want to move on to the next --

0:37:51.984,0:37:54.729
>> Hubbard: Actually, it's probably the next couple of slides[br]>> Stevens: Yeah.

0:37:54.729,0:37:56.136
>> Hubbard: does someone have a question?

0:37:56.689,0:38:04.026
>> Stevens [check]: Yes, Peggy George has asked questions in the text chat, the Etherpad one.

0:38:04.795,0:38:06.710
Let's see, I can -- she asks:

0:38:06.710,0:38:10.976
"Are your students able to share your curated content with others outside the course?"

0:38:10.976,0:38:15.266
>> Hubbard: Yes. Yes, som you'll see the --

0:38:15.266,0:38:20.397
in fact I think it comes up here on the next slide or couple of slides.

0:38:20.397,0:38:25.352
Actually the next slide, if you go to the next slide, let me talk briefly about that,

0:38:25.352,0:38:30.531
because it does have to do with the sharing.[br]>> Stevens: Mmm - OK

0:38:30.924,0:38:36.351
>> Hubbard: So that the link there is to the advanced listening website

0:38:36.351,0:38:39.045
and you'll see, you know, quite a bit of material there,

0:38:39.045,0:38:40.506
not just the TED talks.

0:38:41.223,0:38:45.365
The link - the specific link to the curated TED talks is a couple of slides from here

0:38:45.365,0:38:52.346
but those are -- those themselves are legally and freely available.

0:38:52.346,0:38:55.430
They're <i>my</i> websites, they are on the Stanford server:

0:38:55.430,0:39:01.159
Stanford is not going away any time soon, as far as I know <i>I'm</i> not going away any time soon.

0:39:01.635,0:39:06.380
So those are not only, you know, available on the World Wide Web,

0:39:06.380,0:39:11.226
unless you happen to be from a country that is for some reason blocking access to Stanford:

0:39:11.702,0:39:14.114
that has happened a few times in the past.

0:39:16.201,0:39:19.125
But if not, then you can get to that material

0:39:19.125,0:39:23.420
and all it does is jump out to the TED talks themselves

0:39:23.420,0:39:26.641
and the TED talks again are, you know, freely available.

0:39:27.317,0:39:31.073
I noticed in one of the preliminary discussions

0:39:31.073,0:39:38.663
that somebody had put in some comments, before this began, on the learning2gether site,

0:39:38.663,0:39:45.799
and mentioned YouTube videos, and YouTube videos are certainly a great resource,

0:39:46.460,0:39:52.745
most of my students are from China and most of them, then, unless things have changed,

0:39:53.130,0:39:57.879
can't freely and legally get the YouTube videos there.

0:39:58.491,0:40:03.737
And so for that reason I try to -- I don't <i>avoid</i> YouTube

0:40:03.737,0:40:07.812
but I try to limit it and I like to make the curated collections

0:40:07.812,0:40:14.174
something that my students will be able to use and their friends will be able to use.

0:40:17.771,0:40:19.946
OK. Any other questions?

0:40:21.019,0:40:26.865
Uh, so, yeah, so they are available and when I -- just so you know --

0:40:26.880,0:40:35.245
when I redo the course every quarter, that URL there stays the same, the material is new.

0:40:35.829,0:40:38.552
Well, most of it is old actually, but I do update it

0:40:38.552,0:40:41.418
sometimes because I come up with other ideas

0:40:41.418,0:40:45.627
and sometimes because some of my other class material disappears.

0:40:47.119,0:40:52.874
But the home page of that each quarter has the link to the previous quarter's materials,

0:40:52.874,0:40:58.528
so you can actually step back from quarter to quarter and go back.

0:40:58.528,0:41:04.268
I never throw anything away on the Web, so it's probably got stuff from 5 years ago

0:41:04.268,0:41:09.394
if you keep clicking back through the previous quarters' material.

0:41:09.978,0:41:16.009
So you can see what it was like in the past ["without"? check] sort of my own Internet Archive.

0:41:18.248,0:41:24.538
OK. The way that I did this material, let me move on to the --

0:41:25.760,0:41:27.536
Well, I guess on this slide,

0:41:28.243,0:41:35.087
the problems that my students have, typically, fall into issues with speech rate:

0:41:35.579,0:41:38.483
some of the TED talks are too fast.

0:41:38.483,0:41:43.486
It doesn't mean they can't, you know, use top-down skills to understand the basic content,

0:41:43.486,0:41:46.852
but that's not necessarily going to help them drive their --

0:41:46.852,0:41:54.129
either their listening proficiency, you know, their ability to process English, automatize it,

0:41:54.129,0:42:00.709
or their ability to pick out the vocabulary that they don't understand or --

0:42:00.709,0:42:05.666
even more interesting is the vocabulary they sort of understand or partially understand,

0:42:05.666,0:42:11.833
but they just can't get to it, they can't access it in the time with a faster speaker.

0:42:11.833,0:42:16.700
And there are others in my class, actually, that do OK with some of the faster speakers,

0:42:16.700,0:42:20.215
but just having knowledge of the speech rate is useful.

0:42:21.552,0:42:28.016
Preliminary knowledge of the accent: just a -- since in some cases we have students

0:42:28.016,0:42:33.663
that are having particular difficulties with particular accents, often of their professors,

0:42:34.647,0:42:39.950
and they may actually be doing a project where they're trying to focus on that accent.

0:42:40.690,0:42:45.640
And so in that case, knowing more about the accent is helpful.

0:42:45.640,0:42:50.886
And others are really trying to -- I wouldn't say "master",

0:42:50.886,0:42:59.161
but at least becoming -- become more proficient with the North American accent

0:42:59.161,0:43:04.149
because they plan on not only doing their graduate work here, but staying a few years afterwards.

0:43:04.149,0:43:10.060
It's a very common professional track for our students whether at the Master's or the Ph.D. level, to --

0:43:11.981,0:43:15.330
because so many of them are in technology, they want to hang around Silicon Valley

0:43:15.330,0:43:18.683
as much as the can after they, after the graduate.

0:43:20.223,0:43:23.411
OK. If you could go to the next slide, Vance?

0:43:26.865,0:43:30.330
>> Stevens: OK I might [br][both overlap]

0:43:30.330,0:43:35.744
>> Stevens: You mentioned Claude Almansi's contribution to the wiki earlier

0:43:35.744,0:43:45.113
and one thing that she said -- she left this on the Google+ page as well:

0:43:45.113,0:43:50.068
I post this to several pages.[br]Let me just get rid of that slide for a second.

0:43:50.068,0:43:53.922
I see I can do that by clicking off the screen share for a second, OK?

0:43:53.922,0:43:58.394
Well, anyway. She does work in closed captioning,

0:43:58.394,0:44:01.842
she does a lot of very interesting work relating to MOOCs [check] where she is.

0:44:01.842,0:44:08.343
And one of the suggestions she made -- I didn't know this, but maybe you did already,

0:44:08.343,0:44:16.991
but you can -- she said you can, if you get the MP4, if you get an MP4 of a YouTube video,

0:44:16.991,0:44:20.436
you can then load it into Audacity -- I didn't know that --

0:44:20.436,0:44:29.521
and then you can adjust the rate of speech there, without causing any chipmunk effects.

0:44:30.182,0:44:31.928
>> Hubbard: Mmm.[br]>> Stevens: I thought that was kind of neat.

0:44:31.928,0:44:34.138
Sounds like useful information?

0:44:34.859,0:44:45.063
>> Hubbard: Yeah, that's -- again, there are lots of things you can do to go more deeply into this stuff.

0:44:45.601,0:44:52.019
I -- one of the things I do with TED talks is, you can also download TED talks and you can --

0:44:52.711,0:44:58.337
even if you put them into something, well I use the VLC player,

0:44:58.337,0:45:03.383
because the speech rate slider is right on the top,

0:45:03.383,0:45:08.938
it's much easier to get at than it is in QuickTime or in Windows Media Player.

0:45:08.938,0:45:12.050
I like the VLC player for other reasons, in fact.

0:45:12.495,0:45:20.027
But, you know, once you have downloaded you can use the VLC player to --

0:45:21.532,0:45:24.048
for the most part you don't really get the chipmunk effect

0:45:25.032,0:45:29.930
because it's trying to expand the time domain without changing the frequencies,

0:45:29.930,0:45:34.590
it's not like the old days with LP's and cassette tapes

0:45:34.590,0:45:38.253
where time and frequency were connected to one another.

0:45:38.253,0:45:41.161
Digitally, you can isolate those.

0:45:42.037,0:45:47.079
What we found is that if you slow somebody down to about 80%,

0:45:47.079,0:45:54.181
you can get a lot more processing time and it still sounds natural as long as you have good material.

0:45:55.011,0:45:58.228
If you have material that's already been compressed too much,

0:45:58.228,0:46:04.109
then those compression artefacts become stronger if you try to slow it down.

0:46:04.515,0:46:08.955
Occasionally, we get people that my students want to speed up

0:46:08.955,0:46:13.164
but most of the time, for language learning processes, we're talking about slowing it down.

0:46:14.040,0:46:21.178
So it's -- using, changing speech rate, that's a whole different talk,

0:46:21.178,0:46:31.456
but it's, I think, a very underused functionality and something that students sometimes baulk from

0:46:31.456,0:46:41.000
but we have some research evidence that it's helpful when the students have control over it.

0:46:41.753,0:46:44.627
Anyway, I don't want to diverge too much on that, but that's a --

0:46:44.627,0:46:47.232
I do encourage everybody to read that post

0:46:47.232,0:46:51.981
and see in more detail what some of the options are for doing that.

0:46:53.580,0:47:00.362
In fact, one of the -- one of the problems with using the VLC player with those is,

0:47:00.362,0:47:09.049
if you -- if you do try to slow down the speech rate by downloading it and putting it in the VLC player,

0:47:09.064,0:47:12.298
you actually move the subtitles, because the subtitle feature --

0:47:13.159,0:47:20.899
the captioning feature in the TED website is built into the website, it's not built into the video.

0:47:20.899,0:47:26.627
And so you would need to do some additional captioning if you want to do that.

0:47:27.481,0:47:34.506
My -- if your goal is general comprehension and you've got decent material,

0:47:35.044,0:47:41.312
then I'm a fan of using the Google beta transcription.

0:47:43.695,0:47:46.604
Even with good material, it makes a lot of mistakes

0:47:46.604,0:47:50.136
and with material which, you know, isn't really, really clear,

0:47:50.136,0:47:53.500
either because the speaker wasn't clear, or because the signal wasn't clear,

0:47:53.500,0:47:54.853
it makes a lot more mistakes.

0:47:55.307,0:47:59.597
And in my case, when I'm trying to have students use it for vocabulary development,

0:48:00.166,0:48:05.289
if it's got -- if it picks the wrong word, then they're going to be learning something pretty weird.

0:48:05.289,0:48:07.970
And it does that all the time.

0:48:08.624,0:48:15.242
If you change that and, you know, get around to Google Translate, to get first-language captions,

0:48:15.242,0:48:18.662
you just accentuate the error rate.

0:48:19.431,0:48:22.725
So again, it really depends on what the goal is.

0:48:22.725,0:48:29.445
If the goal is letting students watch a video for cultural and general content information,

0:48:29.983,0:48:32.884
maybe to trigger classroom discussions, things like that,

0:48:32.884,0:48:38.693
then using the automated captions is not a bad idea

0:48:38.693,0:48:44.726
and being able to slow down is not necessarily -- is, well, I think a good idea.

0:48:46.620,0:48:50.587
So again, it depends on what the goals are, but you have to be careful,

0:48:50.587,0:48:54.117
because the Google beta, there is a reason why they keep calling it beta,

0:48:54.117,0:48:57.572
it's because it's pretty error-prone.

0:48:58.418,0:49:00.464
It's getting better but it's not there yet.

0:49:01.362,0:49:04.721
And if students think it's an accurate rendition

0:49:04.721,0:49:06.328
that's going to be even more difficult.

0:49:06.328,0:49:12.756
If you do use the automated captions then the students need to be prepared for --

0:49:13.463,0:49:16.414
you know, to be able to recognize when something doesn't make sense.

0:49:17.090,0:49:19.737
It's usually -- it's a very obvious semantic issue

0:49:19.737,0:49:21.506
with the words they pick.

0:49:24.072,0:49:28.859
OK. One other thing, I don't remember if it was in that post or another one but

0:49:28.859,0:49:36.097
something I hadn't noticed before someone mentioned that there is a slight delay

0:49:36.097,0:49:39.881
in the synchronization of the captions in TED

0:49:40.296,0:49:43.649
compared to the system that they were suggesting.

0:49:44.163,0:49:48.985
So, uh, that's something else to take into account.

0:49:48.985,0:49:54.082
You might, If that delay seems to be an issue for you or your students, then --

0:49:56.773,0:50:00.845
it's something that I plan to explore because I hadn't noticed that before.

0:50:01.850,0:50:05.785
Okay, a little bit about how I finally figured out to do this,

0:50:05.785,0:50:09.164
which is not the way I would recommend doing it now necessarily

0:50:09.917,0:50:17.277
But this is how I started working on this. When I did it I guess it was Spring of 2011.

0:50:18.184,0:50:27.345
The first thing was to...oh no, it wasn't Spring: Fall of 2011.

0:50:27.773,0:50:30.717
The first thing to do is to get the TED database.

0:50:30.717,0:50:35.492
It turns out you can get an excel spreadsheet that has all of the Ted talks on it.

0:50:35.492,0:50:39.395
If you go to their website you can see that there's a link for that.

0:50:40.176,0:50:45.474
And the nice thing about that is that you can skim that a whole lot more easily

0:50:45.474,0:50:47.624
than you can skim other material

0:50:47.624,0:50:55.086
and you can also look, among other things, it tells you what the length of the talk is.

0:50:55.086,0:51:04.124
And most Ted talks are around 18 minutes and most students attention focus ability is less.

0:51:06.981,0:51:17.365
Um, okay, the database then, when I did it myself,

0:51:17.365,0:51:19.865
it was smaller for one thing, at that point.

0:51:19.865,0:51:24.829
But I did sort of skim it and looked for ideas, looked for themes

0:51:25.490,0:51:27.343
and searched for keywords.

0:51:27.343,0:51:30.100
So creativity was one of the first ones I did,

0:51:30.100,0:51:34.022
so I was just able to search for anything that had creativity

0:51:34.022,0:51:37.467
either in its description or in its title.

0:51:38.467,0:51:43.295
I put together a list of candidates within that.

0:51:43.295,0:51:48.094
I was looking for four or five talks to make a kind of a cluster,

0:51:48.094,0:51:52.217
a sort of a virtual room in the museum if you will.

0:51:53.317,0:52:01.441
And for each of those, I -- well, first of all, I did listen to the accent and got that.

0:52:02.364,0:52:06.405
I wanted to get at least a proxy for the speech speed

0:52:06.405,0:52:08.335
and so -- the speech rate --

0:52:08.335,0:52:11.527
so I just took the transcript, dumped it into Word

0:52:11.527,0:52:16.117
so that I got a word count, divided that and came up with words per minute.

0:52:16.117,0:52:20.745
I was actually quite surprised at the range that I could see there.

0:52:20.745,0:52:25.562
If you go to the website for cre-- the link for "creativity"

0:52:25.562,0:52:30.609
on my ted1 website of the curated talks there --

0:52:31.209,0:52:35.528
the slowest speech rate is like 91 words a minute.

0:52:36.036,0:52:40.006
Some of that is because there are pictures being shown in between

0:52:40.482,0:52:44.878
but it still means you got a lot more time to process the language coming in

0:52:44.878,0:52:48.530
than if you got somebody coming in at -- at a higher rate.

0:52:49.837,0:52:54.340
Some of my students do a --

0:52:55.447,0:53:00.118
there's a website at Stanford called "Entrepreneurship corner"

0:53:00.118,0:53:03.107
and they have a lot of Silicon Valley types come in

0:53:03.107,0:53:05.160
and give talks on campus.

0:53:05.160,0:53:08.132
They also have transcripts and subtitles for that

0:53:08.562,0:53:13.150
and one of the talks that I always have the students try

0:53:13.150,0:53:17.601
is Marissa Mayer who, at the time she gave the talk, was a VP for Google

0:53:18.092,0:53:21.264
but is now the CEO of Yahoo!.

0:53:22.001,0:53:28.877
And she talks between 220 and 237 words a minute on the one I have,

0:53:28.877,0:53:36.271
so I use her as an example of where you might try to use the speech rate shift

0:53:36.271,0:53:40.918
and be able to use the slider to slow her down to 80%.

0:53:42.640,0:53:47.581
OK. The next thing, once I have that rough speed --

0:53:47.581,0:53:53.330
and again, it's just a rough speed, but it's better than not using technology

0:53:53.330,0:53:57.678
and try just to use intuition about "This is too fast, this is too slow."

0:53:58.354,0:54:06.895
The vocabulary profiler -- this is Tom Cobb's work of genius in my opinion.

0:54:06.895,0:54:11.190
There are a lot of parts to that lextutor.ca site,

0:54:11.190,0:54:14.063
but the one that I use for this purpose is the --

0:54:14.063,0:54:18.312
well, at the time, was the British National Corpus profiler

0:54:18.312,0:54:19.919
and there is the link to it there.

0:54:19.919,0:54:23.600
Basically, you dump a text, a transcript into it

0:54:23.600,0:54:30.634
and it gives you as output all the words divided into 1'000 verbal frequency bands,

0:54:30.634,0:54:34.219
so, you know, which words are in the first thousand words of English,

0:54:34.219,0:54:36.778
the second thousand words of English, and so on,

0:54:36.778,0:54:38.947
all the way up to the 20'000 level.

0:54:38.947,0:54:47.196
For my students, we try to focus more on the, you know, just doing a short --

0:54:48.641,0:54:53.681
well, we -- I try to get them to focus more around the 5'000 level,

0:54:53.681,0:54:55.961
so anything below that that they don't know,

0:54:55.961,0:54:57.784
it means it's a word that they should learn.

0:54:59.752,0:55:03.797
And when you go to my site, you can see how that's split up.

0:55:04.689,0:55:07.612
I skim the transcript for unusual terms and idioms --

0:55:07.612,0:55:10.851
Oh, I meant to mention: in the last few weeks,

0:55:11.558,0:55:20.449
Tom has actually added the Coca, it's a contemporary corpus of American English

0:55:20.449,0:55:21.979
and blended those in,

0:55:21.979,0:55:24.338
so it now goes up to the 25'000 level.

0:55:24.737,0:55:29.222
And it has much more American English in it now,

0:55:29.222,0:55:30.506
rather than just the British.

0:55:31.198,0:55:35.210
So, for those of you who like, you know, concordancing

0:55:35.210,0:55:37.511
and corpus studying, study and so on,

0:55:37.511,0:55:43.030
it's got a much richer layering out than it did when I was using it for this purpose.

0:55:45.905,0:55:47.743
OK. So that's the process.

0:55:47.743,0:55:53.333
Now I said, you know, I would do it a little bit differently, probably.

0:55:53.333,0:55:57.579
It turns out that, since the time I began this and now,

0:55:58.502,0:56:01.464
TED has come up with its own curated collections.

0:56:01.464,0:56:03.598
And so, if you go to the TED website,

0:56:03.598,0:56:06.178
you will see a link to something called "playlists"

0:56:06.916,0:56:11.232
and these are collections of material that people have put together.

0:56:11.232,0:56:13.627
In some cases, it's done by TED itself,

0:56:14.503,0:56:17.039
you know, whoever is in the background working there,

0:56:17.039,0:56:21.583
but they also have curated collections by Bill Gates and Bono

0:56:21.598,0:56:24.073
and, you know, other famous folk,

0:56:24.073,0:56:27.414
or in some cases, they're people who are less famous

0:56:27.414,0:56:34.829
but, you know, are very well-known within their, you know, their more restricted field.

0:56:34.851,0:56:37.567
And there's some really, really good collections there.

0:56:39.074,0:56:41.648
So now, instead of just going to the database,

0:56:41.648,0:56:45.870
my inclination would be to go to that -- to those other curated playlists.

0:56:45.870,0:56:48.443
Those have been curated just by interest

0:56:48.812,0:56:54.915
and so if you have a list of maybe 10 or 12 videos on one topic,

0:56:55.438,0:56:58.707
you go through those, and maybe you pick out the 4 or 5

0:56:58.707,0:57:00.391
that you think are easiest to work with.

0:57:03.681,0:57:05.847
So, that's there on the "Recent changes".

0:57:07.062,0:57:09.887
I did -- number 2 there where it says

0:57:09.887,0:57:11.263
-- this is from my talk last July --

0:57:11.263,0:57:16.483
Well, I did have a project assistant who has collected some more material for me

0:57:16.483,0:57:21.208
and basically run it through the -- the Word, you know,

0:57:21.208,0:57:27.859
done some of the preliminary work for the words for minute and the vocabulary profile.

0:57:28.659,0:57:31.237
Unfortunately, that came at the end of Summer,

0:57:31.237,0:57:33.568
right before Fall quarter started for me

0:57:33.568,0:57:36.337
and I have not had a chance to really look through her material

0:57:37.244,0:57:41.933
but I do have some partially digested material

0:57:41.933,0:57:44.901
that should help me create some new stuff.

0:57:47.207,0:57:51.275
I guess, at this point, probably the most useful thing --

0:57:51.275,0:57:56.155
Vance, could you -- can you actually click on that link to the TED1,

0:57:56.155,0:57:58.435
just so I can sort of show people what --

0:57:59.622,0:58:01.137
[Stevens and Hubbard speak together][br]>> Stevens: ... already.

0:58:01.137,0:58:05.935
It's in the text chat. So --[br]>> Hubbard: Ah, OK, so people can go to it

0:58:05.935,0:58:08.496
on their own? Alright, then you --[br]>>Stevens: I can also share it.

0:58:09.145,0:58:13.485
>> Hubbard: Well, the only thing -- I think if you go down -- go to the next slide actually,

0:58:13.485,0:58:15.138
there's the Creativity group.[br]>> Stevens: OK.

0:58:15.968,0:58:17.344
>> Hubbard: and this will show --

0:58:19.697,0:58:23.629
This is a more condensed version of what you would see on the page.

0:58:24.367,0:58:26.533
>> Stevens: Mmh. OK: let me share it.

0:58:26.533,0:58:30.460
>> Hubbard: but this is, yeah, this is the Andy Hobs-- Hobsbawm,

0:58:30.460,0:58:32.490
I'm not sure how to pronounce his name.

0:58:34.019,0:58:41.784
This is a nice beginning talk, I think it's the second talk in the Creativity group.

0:58:41.784,0:58:44.603
You can see it's a pretty short talk, just three and a half minutes.

0:58:44.603,0:58:47.656
You can see the speed is 135 words per minute.

0:58:47.656,0:58:50.703
He has kind of a dramatic presentation style,

0:58:51.117,0:58:55.910
so that's why it's a little bit more slow, a little bit slower,

0:58:55.910,0:58:58.845
it's very articulate, it's very easy to hear,

0:58:58.845,0:59:05.877
it is more of a British English rather than an American English version.

0:59:06.692,0:59:09.745
The vocabulary you can see at the 5'000 level,

0:59:09.745,0:59:16.047
so if you -- to read that, I mean, 95% of the words are in the first 5'000 words of English.

0:59:17.523,0:59:22.504
And, you know, 98% of the first 10'000, and then Off-List.

0:59:22.504,0:59:25.538
The Off-List on these are often proper nouns.

0:59:25.538,0:59:29.486
So those don't necessarily cause a great deal of difficulty,

0:59:29.486,0:59:31.233
especially if some of the names in it,

0:59:31.233,0:59:36.164
or names of places are ones that the students already are familiar with.

0:59:36.164,0:59:38.158
[stifles a sneeze] Excuse me.

0:59:38.158,0:59:41.088
About to sneeze. Wasn't expecting to do that online.

0:59:42.857,0:59:46.715
And then a little bit of a comment: "creativity is repeated a number of times."

0:59:46.715,0:59:50.565
So, if you go to the website, you'll see it's a -- it's a little richer than that

0:59:50.565,0:59:53.958
but this kind of captures the main point I want to say.

0:59:53.958,0:59:59.188
So I said, I'm giving value added, as the expert,

0:59:59.188,1:00:01.465
and not only am I collecting these things,

1:00:02.111,1:00:08.186
but I'm using technology to give students some idea of level.

1:00:09.263,1:00:11.737
Ultimately, it would be great if I could say, you know,

1:00:11.737,1:00:21.270
this is level 5 of 10 levels, or this is at the B1 level of the C, CEF,

1:00:22.946,1:00:28.632
or just even, you know, this is high-intermediate, or something like that.

1:00:28.632,1:00:31.867
I don't have that confidence yet,

1:00:31.867,1:00:34.867
so at this point I'm giving students more the raw data,

1:00:34.867,1:00:40.032
but I do actually tell them, and I may highlight this in future versions,

1:00:40.432,1:00:47.177
that at the 5'000 level is probably the most important pivot point for my students.

1:00:48.323,1:00:52.262
If that level, you know, if that's up to 96 or 97%,

1:00:52.293,1:00:55.431
that means they're going to understand that fairly well.

1:00:55.431,1:01:00.764
If it's down even to 92 or 93%, then there are likely to be enough words in there

1:01:00.764,1:01:02.880
that they are going to have gaps.

1:01:02.880,1:01:07.721
And they'll be able to process it top-down, extract information from it,

1:01:07.721,1:01:10.188
but it won't be as valuable for language learning.

1:01:10.680,1:01:12.851
If you look at the, you know, the research on reading,

1:01:12.851,1:01:15.758
which is much better established than on listening,

1:01:17.066,1:01:22.360
anywhere between 95 and 98% is what people typically quote as

1:01:22.360,1:01:25.518
material that's ideal for language learning.

1:01:25.534,1:01:28.896
And below that percentage, if you don't know those words,

1:01:29.327,1:01:33.304
then you're not going to be reading or listening in the same way:

1:01:33.351,1:01:36.175
you're not going to be processing the language in the same way.

1:01:37.144,1:01:41.817
OK. I see we're moving ahead quite a bit on time here.

1:01:41.848,1:01:45.920
So I think I'll go to a -- just a final slide.

1:01:45.951,1:01:48.969
Vance, could you go to the "Related examples" one?

1:01:50.307,1:01:54.069
>> Stevens: Uh-uh.[br]>> Hubbard: Just to let you -- yeah --

1:01:54.100,1:01:56.812
these are just a few places that I know of

1:01:56.812,1:01:59.799
where people are trying to do something similar.

1:02:00.506,1:02:05.435
The CLILSTORE Project is a very big European project

1:02:05.881,1:02:10.728
and they have collected material.

1:02:10.728,1:02:11.981
Some of it they've done themselves,

1:02:11.981,1:02:16.373
some of it teachers have put into there, to their database,

1:02:16.373,1:02:23.148
they have information on the talk itself, they've --

1:02:23.148,1:02:28.635
whoever has done it has put in a CEF level,

1:02:28.635,1:02:33.815
so it starts with all the A1 material, then the A2, and then the B1 and then the B2.

1:02:33.815,1:02:37.697
It's done in -- I checked -- and it's apparently done intuitively.

1:02:37.697,1:02:42.396
It's not apparently done by running it through, you know,

1:02:42.396,1:02:46.439
the kind of material that I was using there, lextutor and so on.

1:02:46.439,1:02:49.501
But at least, it means an expert teacher has said:

1:02:49.501,1:02:51.834
"Here is the level I think this is at."

1:02:51.834,1:02:55.559
I will mention some issues with that myself,

1:02:55.559,1:03:00.648
because I looked at it and they put a TED talk in the A1 level, somebody had it.

1:03:00.648,1:03:07.097
And it's definitely not the A1 level for -- at least for comprehension purposes.

1:03:07.097,1:03:09.146
It may be that the person put that in

1:03:09.146,1:03:11.103
because the content was so valuable

1:03:11.103,1:03:14.528
and that they thought that this is something that could be used

1:03:14.528,1:03:16.195
you know, with a lot of help.

1:03:16.195,1:03:23.695
But the main feature of the CLILSTORE material is that all of the words --

1:03:23.695,1:03:25.313
there is a transcript

1:03:25.313,1:03:29.535
and all the words in the transcript are linked to multilingual dictionaries.

1:03:29.535,1:03:32.135
So you just have to click on a word in a transcript you don't know,

1:03:32.135,1:03:35.358
and you immediately get the response.

1:03:35.358,1:03:39.597
Ayamel is a Brigham Young media project

1:03:39.597,1:03:44.148
where they've been collecting and cataloging authentic media.

1:03:44.148,1:03:48.691
All of these use authentic media, I want to emphasize there,

1:03:48.691,1:03:50.896
but you could go back, you know,

1:03:50.896,1:03:55.315
and curate Randall's Cyber Listening Lab or something like that as well.

1:03:55.315,1:03:57.557
And then I haven't checked this one.

1:03:57.557,1:03:59.961
I hope the link is still good.

1:03:59.961,1:04:03.026
There is a product called Lingle

1:04:03.026,1:04:06.556
that will index according to Common European Framework level,

1:04:06.556,1:04:09.891
so if you put something into it, it will give its best guess

1:04:09.891,1:04:17.561
as to, you know, what the level is for both reading and for listening.

1:04:17.561,1:04:21.271
OK. Let's see.

1:04:21.271,1:04:25.392
I see somebody else has put a CEF level (check) over in the chat -- James.

1:04:25.392,1:04:30.802
So, some of you might want to take a look at some of the [missed word, check] material.

1:04:30.802,1:04:32.961
As somebody else mentioned the SRA, by the way,

1:04:32.961,1:04:34.559
and I don't have it in this talk,

1:04:34.559,1:04:40.597
but I -- some of you may be familiar with Tom Robb's work on graded readers.

1:04:40.597,1:04:43.313
Charles Brown has also been doing a lot of work in that.

1:04:43.313,1:04:50.481
And graded readers are clearly examples of material that fits into this.

1:04:50.481,1:04:54.280
The difference is, they're not freely available.

1:04:54.280,1:04:57.983
Unless somebody has come up with a really good collection that I don't know about yet,

1:04:57.983,1:05:02.526
you're always stuck with having to pay a fair amount to a publisher

1:05:02.526,1:05:06.135
to get the graded readers, and they're not authentic,

1:05:06.135,1:05:08.126
but I think they're useful enough,

1:05:08.126,1:05:11.458
like, I don't think that authenticity is all that great a thing if you're --

1:05:11.458,1:05:15.177
if you're still at a lower level and just trying to get the language in.

1:05:15.177,1:05:21.750
So, I think, something that's well-written and, you know, well-produced,

1:05:21.750,1:05:27.606
to me, whether it's technically authentic or not is a secondary issue.

1:05:27.606,1:05:33.815
My key here is this idea of freely available, and often it's not.

1:05:33.815,1:05:37.280
OK. Let me go ahead and stop again:

1:05:37.280,1:05:40.602
the, you know, the final comments and the reference list and all of that,

1:05:40.602,1:05:42.983
you can get if you go to the PDF yourself

1:05:42.983,1:05:49.501
but I do want to give people a chance, especially some of those who have, you know,

1:05:49.501,1:05:52.271
either put things over in the chat

1:05:52.271,1:05:56.392
or who have read things over in the chat that look interesting,

1:05:56.392,1:05:59.057
and certainly the participants here.

1:05:59.057,1:06:05.059
What -- what questions and comments do we have?

1:06:05.059,1:06:08.767
>> Stevens: Claude Almansi has arrived in the chat

1:06:08.767,1:06:14.228
but she's shy about coming in because she hasn't heard the whole conversation,

1:06:14.228,1:06:17.733
but anyway: I guess she could if she wanted.

1:06:17.733,1:06:22.726
There are seven people in the chat now, so we have -- that is, in the hangout --

1:06:22.726,1:06:25.561
so we have room for three.

1:06:25.561,1:06:29.068
>> Buckingham: Hi Phil, I just wanted to add, I think that this is[br]>>Hubbard: Uh uh

1:06:29.068,1:06:31.834
>> Buckingham: This -- it lit a light bulb for me.

1:06:31.834,1:06:35.398
I just thought this getting a group of people together,

1:06:35.398,1:06:41.646
use this kind, this style of approach to collecting transcripts

1:06:41.646,1:06:43.481
and analyzing the transcripts

1:06:43.481,1:06:46.593
and the being able to put them, I don't know where,

1:06:46.593,1:06:48.463
somewhere up in the cloud,

1:06:48.463,1:06:52.169
I mean over time, you could have quite an assortment of these readings

1:06:52.169,1:06:58.628
to be shared collectively, and then, basically, circumvent the SRA

1:06:58.628,1:07:00.362
and the [missed words - check].

1:07:00.362,1:07:02.938
This would be fantastic.

1:07:02.938,1:07:04.501
Just thinking aloud here.

1:07:04.501,1:07:10.028
>> Hubbard: Well it's, you know, certainly part of what I'm trying to do here,

1:07:10.028,1:07:13.901
because I don't have the time that I wish I did for this,

1:07:13.901,1:07:21.146
you know, is to both encourage other people to be interested in it

1:07:21.146,1:07:26.233
and get into, whether they're formal or informal collaborative projects

1:07:26.233,1:07:28.144
for putting stuff together,

1:07:28.144,1:07:31.762
and then, secondly, just for experimenting for yourself,

1:07:31.762,1:07:38.434
because this is something that I've thought about a lot, I've done some reading in,

1:07:38.434,1:07:42.811
and I've also tried things along the way

1:07:42.811,1:07:44.981
and have ideas about how to make it better,

1:07:44.981,1:07:49.148
but it's still very much in its infancy.

1:07:49.148,1:07:57.257
And this is if -- if is the subtitle of Rosenbaum's book is that, you know,

1:07:57.257,1:08:01.311
content is the -- curation is the future of content,

1:08:01.311,1:08:04.610
then this is something we need to get better at

1:08:04.610,1:08:08.267
and be thinking about that for different purposes,

1:08:08.267,1:08:12.900
so, if you're curating materials, for example, for teachers to use in classrooms,

1:08:12.900,1:08:16.727
that could be quite different from curating materials

1:08:16.727,1:08:19.468
that you're going to have the students use independently.

1:08:19.468,1:08:21.625
It could hopefully overlap quite a bit,

1:08:21.625,1:08:24.532
but it won't be the same.

1:08:24.532,1:08:31.151
And curating materials for cultural purposes, or for triggering discussions,

1:08:31.151,1:08:33.978
is not going to be the same as the way I've curated here,

1:08:33.978,1:08:40.679
you know, where I'm more concerned with level than other people might be,

1:08:40.679,1:08:42.869
whereas others might be more concerned with the content itself

1:08:42.869,1:08:46.828
and, you know, don't have a problem with letting people listen to it

1:08:46.828,1:08:49.526
with subtitles in their native language.

1:08:51.372,1:08:56.845
Or, you know, with sort of getting the gist of it without necessarily getting all the details.

1:08:56.845,1:09:00.769
So there is a -- there's a very rich area here to explore in lots of different directions.

1:09:00.769,1:09:04.159
What I try to do too, is keep the curation pretty light.

1:09:04.788,1:09:07.486
When I've given this talk before, a couple of times,

1:09:07.486,1:09:11.520
people often come up with ideas for, you know,

1:09:11.520,1:09:15.651
adding discussion questions, basically making it more,

1:09:15.651,1:09:19.065
into more lesson-like and adding --

1:09:19.065,1:09:21.455
in other words, having more value added.

1:09:21.455,1:09:22.955
And I think that's great.

1:09:23.601,1:09:27.063
I'm trying to come up with sort of an intermediate stage

1:09:27.063,1:09:29.147
where I'm doing something that's helpful,

1:09:29.515,1:09:34.639
but not something that -- that I wouldn't have time to do otherwise.

1:09:39.775,1:09:41.405
Are there questions, comments?

1:09:49.264,1:09:55.914
I see there is a lot of people talking about SRA [<i>laughs</i>] over in the chat.

1:09:55.914,1:09:57.314
>> Stevens: [missed words - check][br]>> Hubbard: Yeah.

1:09:57.667,1:09:59.771
>> Hubbard: So for those of you would be listening [missed words check]

1:09:59.771,1:10:03.021
I'd be looking SRA Science Research Associates is a --

1:10:03.021,1:10:07.614
a set of graded readers that was very popular in the US,

1:10:08.244,1:10:12.015
probably going back to the 1960's, 1970's.

1:10:12.631,1:10:15.435
I remember using it in my first reading lab

1:10:15.435,1:10:18.453
when I was teaching in the early 80's and it's,

1:10:19.099,1:10:22.717
unless it's changed, it's designed for native speakers materials,

1:10:22.717,1:10:29.514
but it's aimed at trying to lead you step by step into reading proficiency.

1:10:29.514,1:10:33.667
And it's a fairly traditional approach of, you know, read,

1:10:33.667,1:10:36.177
respond to comprehension questions and so on,

1:10:36.177,1:10:40.146
but it does have -- it does timed readings and some other things as well,

1:10:40.146,1:10:44.697
and is very much in the general graded readers approach.

1:10:48.818,1:10:50.902
Oops, perhaps I'm not hearing you.

1:11:00.515,1:11:03.683
>> Stevens: [missed word check], how about this one. Oops.

1:11:03.683,1:11:05.244
Is that working? OK, yeah.

1:11:05.244,1:11:09.768
My USB went out, now I'm on word mike [check]

1:11:09.768,1:11:15.671
OK, well, anyway, I was saying that I have some perspectives on this,

1:11:15.671,1:11:22.407
having seen you present some of this at the TESOL conference in the KIS group.

1:11:22.407,1:11:24.854
Your focus was a little bit different at that time,

1:11:24.854,1:11:27.394
it was on the videos themselves.

1:11:28.240,1:11:33.057
And I wonder if you have a link to that presentation

1:11:33.057,1:11:33.987
that you could put in there,

1:11:33.987,1:11:36.879
because there were really nice examples of what you can do with this,

1:11:37.417,1:11:39.930
as far as finding graded materials for your students,

1:11:39.930,1:11:44.794
and -- because I think you had those organized in such a way that they started simple

1:11:44.794,1:11:47.280
and went to more difficult.

1:11:47.807,1:11:51.633
>> Hubbard: Right, the materials and I think what I did in that talk

1:11:51.633,1:11:57.373
is basically walk through the -- the ted1 web page.

1:11:58.034,1:12:01.838
And so if you go to that link that we've already -- that I've already put in there,

1:12:01.838,1:12:03.873
the one that ends in ted1--[br]>> Stevens: yeah

1:12:03.873,1:12:06.732
>> Hubbard: let me see for sure if I can bring it up here

1:12:06.732,1:12:08.861
>> Stevens: I might be able to do that.

1:12:10.445,1:12:13.761
OK, yeah, I probably got that here: here we go.

1:12:13.761,1:12:15.299
Yes, I got it here.

1:12:15.683,1:12:18.203
>> Hubbard: Yeah, so that gives a little bit the back --

1:12:18.203,1:12:23.637
one of the problems is this particular long scrolling web page

1:12:23.637,1:12:27.282
that needs to be broken up and do a little bit of a hierarchy.

1:12:27.282,1:12:30.839
But for right now, this is sort of what I have available.

1:12:31.209,1:12:35.685
So it gives a little bit of background, if it's the one I think it is,

1:12:35.685,1:12:40.153
let me double-check here and -- It's not up on the main screen

1:12:40.153,1:12:42.446
so I'll have to --

1:12:44.738,1:12:47.392
>> Stevens: Would it be this one? Yes. We -- have I got it up there now?

1:12:48.561,1:12:50.361
>> Hubbard: Errh, that's the one, yeah.

1:12:50.392,1:12:51.717
[Stevens and Hubbard overlap]

1:12:51.717,1:12:53.378
>> Hubbard: This is actually what the students see.

1:12:53.378,1:13:02.317
So this is really for them.[br]>> Stevens: You've got to find the window --

1:13:08.485,1:13:11.668
>> Hubbard: And so again, it explains, you know, how I have --

1:13:13.407,1:13:16.243
I've -- the material that's in there,

1:13:16.243,1:13:18.191
the support material that's in there for the students

1:13:19.514,1:13:23.126
And then this is the example group 1,

1:13:23.126,1:13:25.099
the first one I did was on creativity

1:13:25.099,1:13:27.018
and I said that one is a little easier,

1:13:27.018,1:13:29.997
because sometimes the students want to have some idea of --

1:13:30.658,1:13:33.508
that was just my impression that it was easier.

1:13:34.831,1:13:39.867
And so it starts with -- you can see the words per minute speed on this,

1:13:39.867,1:13:46.403
since 91, the vocabulary is relatively easier,you know,

1:13:46.403,1:13:51.677
95.4 at the 5K level, it's a US standard.

1:13:51.677,1:13:53.953
It does have a, you know,

1:13:54.384,1:14:02.171
almost no student who takes this actually knows the word "tinker", going in,

1:14:03.048,1:14:04.950
and this is about the "tinkering school".

1:14:04.950,1:14:07.512
So, one of things, if I had a little more time,

1:14:07.512,1:14:10.861
is that I would add under the comment, instead of just saying:

1:14:10.861,1:14:12.934
"Some good vocabulary to learn,"

1:14:12.934,1:14:15.205
I would probably define the word "tinker" there,

1:14:17.696,1:14:21.039
without spending too much more time:

1:14:21.039,1:14:22.877
just looking at this, it reminds me.

1:14:22.877,1:14:27.197
The second one, also fairly short, is the one I already mentioned,

1:14:27.197,1:14:30.091
on the "Do the Green Thing."

1:14:30.614,1:14:33.861
The third one, students find this really interesting.

1:14:33.861,1:14:39.274
It's a 12-year old giving a talk on what adults can learn from kids.

1:14:39.274,1:14:44.690
She speaks faster, but the vocabulary level is a little bit lower. [1:14:44]

1:14:47.807,1:14:52.958
And it's kind of inspiring to them to see what 12-year olds can talk about.

1:14:54.526,1:14:59.068
The next one -- the last one there, "Amy Tan on creativity,"

1:14:59.083,1:15:02.351
because, as I mentioned, I have so many Chinese students in my group,

1:15:02.351,1:15:04.799
this is a, you know, a Chinese-American

1:15:04.799,1:15:07.669
who writes about the Chinese-American experience.

1:15:09.898,1:15:13.664
Interestingly, you'd kind of expect somebody from literature

1:15:13.664,1:15:16.156
to maybe be using high-level language,

1:15:16.156,1:15:20.106
but her vocabulary profile is actually the easiest.

1:15:20.967,1:15:29.340
So, 97.5% at the 5K or below, 96% at the first 3'000 words level.

1:15:29.340,1:15:34.158
So this one, in terms of accessibility for vocabulary, is by far the easiest.

1:15:34.158,1:15:38.547
It is, however, also longer

1:15:39.377,1:15:45.678
and because of that, its [br]-- OK, I have to

1:15:47.369,1:15:51.505
I got a -- a little thing popped up on my screen:

1:15:51.505,1:15:55.568
that's David Wexler "Open Capture" smile.

1:15:56.121,1:15:59.115
So, am I supposed to click "Open capture"?[br][Stevens giggles]

1:16:01.868,1:16:03.209
>> Hubbard: Anybody know?

1:16:03.547,1:16:04.739
>> Stevens: I don't know.[br]>> Hubbard: they are saying [check]

1:16:04.739,1:16:07.928
Sorry, mistake, no, sorry, mis-clicking up there [check]

1:16:08.959,1:16:10.566
I'm gonna -- I'm just going to close that window

1:16:10.566,1:16:12.780
because now I can't see the rest of my stuff.

1:16:12.780,1:16:18.409
[laughs] I'll be happy to send a photo to you if you'd like.

1:16:18.409,1:16:22.425
[Stevens laughs][br]>> Hubbard: even autographed.

1:16:23.440,1:16:25.648
OK, so that was one group.

1:16:25.815,1:16:30.043
The next group, the one on humor, you'll notice the --

1:16:30.043,1:16:31.727
I tell them the overall time on these,

1:16:31.727,1:16:34.630
so this one's like about 40 minutes long

1:16:35.322,1:16:40.287
It begins with this talk, which has actually very little English in it,

1:16:40.287,1:16:43.926
but it is a -- this is an example of what happens in curation.

1:16:44.510,1:16:47.613
The talk by itself isn't that useful for language learning,

1:16:47.613,1:16:50.546
but it sets the stage very much for the first --

1:16:50.546,1:16:52.446
for the next two talks that follow it.

1:16:53.215,1:16:55.621
"The TED speaker's worst nightmare",

1:16:56.113,1:16:57.689
the guy starts to talk and then

1:16:58.735,1:17:02.079
-- much as I experienced this morning when I was trying to get in here --

1:17:02.970,1:17:05.682
runs into some significant technical difficulty.

1:17:07.420,1:17:09.842
And then, the next one on, "Gotta share" is --

1:17:10.801,1:17:14.848
is actually one of the talks,

1:17:14.848,1:17:18.930
it's not technically a TED talk, but it's something posted on the TED website.

1:17:18.930,1:17:22.627
It has all the -- it has the text support

1:17:22.627,1:17:27.421
although it doesn't have a -- it doesn't have a transcript.

1:17:27.821,1:17:33.359
So you -- but it's actually sort of a musical about social media that's--

1:17:33.359,1:17:34.997
that's quite interesting.

1:17:34.997,1:17:38.235
And specially as a lot of my students actually, you know,

1:17:38.235,1:17:40.088
they know about Facebook

1:17:40.088,1:17:43.556
but they don't know about things like vimeo,

1:17:43.556,1:17:47.293
they don't recognize the reference to MySpace,

1:17:47.939,1:17:49.608
where the character says, you know --

1:17:49.608,1:17:50.984
"Is anybody else on MySpace?"

1:17:50.984,1:17:52.345
and everybody says "No,"

1:17:52.345,1:17:57.893
you know, that one [check], FourSquare, and a whole bunch of social media points [check]

1:17:57.893,1:18:05.399
So, it's a very entertaining song

1:18:06.137,1:18:07.883
but it's also built into --

1:18:08.959,1:18:10.735
well, I don't want to give it away too much,

1:18:10.735,1:18:12.127
in case you want to go and see it.

1:18:12.127,1:18:15.480
But the third one, "The shared experience of absurdity,"

1:18:15.480,1:18:20.384
is actually by the guy who organized those first two.

1:18:20.860,1:18:25.649
So it's more of an academic-style TED talk about, you know,

1:18:25.649,1:18:29.897
why they go out and do these sorts of things.

1:18:30.373,1:18:33.590
Among other things, he describes how bigger the project,

1:18:33.590,1:18:38.052
where people kept getting on without their pants on

1:18:38.052,1:18:39.767
at different subway stops in New York

1:18:39.767,1:18:42.314
and then they filmed the crowd's response to that.

1:18:44.128,1:18:45.904
He talks a whole lot faster.

1:18:46.442,1:18:49.447
His vocabulary, though, is at a fairly accessible level:

1:18:49.447,1:18:52.970
look at that: 98.4% at the 5'000 and below.

1:18:52.970,1:18:54.854
He's talking more conversationally.

1:18:54.854,1:18:58.352
It is interesting that often what we see in TED talks,

1:18:58.352,1:19:00.697
and probably in other ones as well,

1:19:00.697,1:19:03.219
is that the faster the speech rate becomes,

1:19:03.695,1:19:06.733
the lower the vocabulary rate is.

1:19:06.733,1:19:10.671
That, I think. would make a really nice Master's thesis sometime,

1:19:10.671,1:19:12.324
to see if that actually happens

1:19:13.262,1:19:17.231
but just impressionistically, I see a lot of that going on here.

1:19:17.231,1:19:19.856
It doesn't seem to be the case with the next one, though,

1:19:20.609,1:19:23.776
which is, this one is called "Sherman the" --

1:19:24.591,1:19:27.681
"Learning from Sherman the Shark" and it's actually the next --

1:19:29.065,1:19:31.412
I'm sorry, the next two --

1:19:32.396,1:19:33.880
Oops, I mixed myself up there.

1:19:33.880,1:19:38.312
So, Number 4 is the one that was at 98.4%.

1:19:38.312,1:19:43.281
So this is by Liza Donnelly who's a New York --

1:19:43.281,1:19:45.113
a New Yorker cartoonist,

1:19:45.113,1:19:47.757
in fact actually the first woman to do --

1:19:48.433,1:19:50.675
to be a cartoonist for the New Yorker

1:19:50.675,1:19:52.744
and talks about that experience.

1:19:54.158,1:19:58.656
Knowing the phrases like "the glass ceiling", which shows up in that talk.

1:19:58.656,1:20:02.313
And then another cartoonist, so we have two kind of related talks,

1:20:04.835,1:20:06.204
finishes that one out.

1:20:06.227,1:20:10.489
I may not go through all these, but you can see the last group is on the brain.

1:20:11.426,1:20:12.925
I have a certain percentage of students

1:20:12.925,1:20:16.718
who are either directly or indirectly interested in that topic.

1:20:17.502,1:20:19.155
So I will go ahead and

1:20:21.046,1:20:23.815
let you all explore that one on your own.

1:20:24.940,1:20:27.964
Vance, I see we're starting to lose people, so --

1:20:30.671,1:20:33.126
>> Stevens: Yeah [missed words check][br]>> Hubbard: What would you like to do here? -- yeah.

1:20:33.664,1:20:35.487
>> Stevens: Can you hear me?[br]>> Hubbard: Yes.

1:20:35.487,1:20:37.780
>> Stevens: Yeah, I guess when we've got to that point about brain

1:20:37.780,1:20:39.833
that sort of faded [check].

1:20:39.833,1:20:42.668
[They laugh]

1:20:42.668,1:20:44.598
>> Stevens: Well, I'll tell you what:

1:20:44.598,1:20:47.824
It's kind of getting towards dinner time here --

1:20:47.824,1:20:50.195
>> Hubbard: Yes.[br]>> Stevens: And maybe breakfast time for you,

1:20:50.810,1:20:56.206
and I sort of -- I feel like we got two presentations in one, there.

1:20:56.206,1:20:57.659
That's really nice.

1:20:57.659,1:21:00.200
Two discussions, or how we want to put it.

1:21:00.200,1:21:04.325
Well obviously, people are, you know, I mean

1:21:04.325,1:21:08.833
you said earlier that you didn't have time yourself for all this

1:21:08.833,1:21:13.072
but it's -- but you planned to see it in others, you know,

1:21:13.072,1:21:17.238
but by making things open and free and accessible

1:21:17.238,1:21:21.538
and by giving -- by talking about it in various venues,

1:21:21.538,1:21:24.920
face to face, online, you know, you give people ideas

1:21:24.920,1:21:26.435
and that's -- that will, you know.

1:21:26.435,1:21:27.196
Now, go ahead.

1:21:27.196,1:21:29.111
>> Hubbard: Right, I will put one challenge out there,

1:21:29.111,1:21:33.530
because I'm -- I'm really interested in this myself,

1:21:33.530,1:21:38.276
because of all the work I do with people outside of Stanford as well,

1:21:38.276,1:21:42.826
who don't have the advantage of the level of students that I have

1:21:42.826,1:21:46.946
in terms of, you know, already being at the TOFL level,

1:21:46.946,1:21:49.485
high enough to get into the university here,

1:21:50.315,1:21:55.715
I would like to see collections that are more targeted at, you know,

1:21:55.715,1:22:00.168
the high, beginning, low-intermediate level.

1:22:00.506,1:22:06.092
And I have had trouble finding clusters of material

1:22:06.092,1:22:07.807
that really do that.

1:22:07.807,1:22:11.171
Again, as I said, when I look at the CLILSTORE material,

1:22:12.063,1:22:14.972
a lot of that, I think, linguistically at least,

1:22:14.972,1:22:18.209
even though it may be tagged at A1 or A2 level,

1:22:18.716,1:22:22.634
isn't really at that level: It may be usable in <i>classes</i> at that level,

1:22:22.634,1:22:23.856
but that's different.

1:22:25.609,1:22:28.058
>> Stevens: Have you -- have your students do this!

1:22:28.058,1:22:32.681
You said that they don't have a lot of time, but still, you know the --

1:22:32.681,1:22:36.202
>> Hubbard: Yeah. Well, if I -- if my students were going to do it,

1:22:36.202,1:22:38.117
they would be doing it at <i>their</i> level

1:22:38.117,1:22:41.582
and it wouldn't be -- they wouldn't be looking for stuff at lower levels.

1:22:42.781,1:22:44.742
And I -- it's just, you know, as we well know,

1:22:44.742,1:22:50.397
you know, the number of people who are at lower levels of English, still learning,

1:22:50.413,1:22:54.110
is much, much greater than those at a higher level,

1:22:54.110,1:23:04.356
Then the value sort of, globally, for a curated collection would be much higher

1:23:04.356,1:23:13.027
if people could find, you know, short -- short pieces that otherwise met those criteria,

1:23:13.027,1:23:17.221
of being stable and freely available and having the -- the language support.

1:23:17.821,1:23:21.654
I don't know to what extent, you know, the CLILSTORE will get there:

1:23:21.654,1:23:23.723
I've only explored pieces of it

1:23:23.723,1:23:28.664
but it doesn't seem to be quite there yet.

1:23:30.663,1:23:34.431
It's great for many other reasons

1:23:34.431,1:23:36.869
and I strongly recommend, if you haven't explored that one,

1:23:36.869,1:23:43.099
that you take a look at it and consider donating to it as well, if you have materials.

1:23:45.620,1:23:50.113
Right, so, I got more people moving on.

1:23:50.113,1:23:52.106
A couple of people are still hanging in here with us.

1:23:52.106,1:23:54.804
Anybody have other comments?

1:24:01.908,1:24:06.386
>> Stevens: Yeah, I'm looking in the text -- in the Etherpad chat.

1:24:06.386,1:24:12.469
The -- I don't know, if someone else wants to make a comment?

1:24:15.468,1:24:20.204
Ah! Peggy makes - points out that there is a separate chat in the hangout,

1:24:20.204,1:24:21.227
and we're not seeing that.

1:24:21.227,1:24:24.064
You know, what [missed words check] tried to do

1:24:24.064,1:24:28.456
is get people NOT to interact in the hangout,

1:24:28.456,1:24:30.682
this doesn't seem to work

1:24:30.682,1:24:32.863
but anyway, I suppose about, you know --

1:24:32.863,1:24:37.995
I was thinking about that when some of the links were posted earlier in the, you know, chat,

1:24:37.995,1:24:43.049
I tried, actually tried to copy them and pasted them into the Etherpad chat.

1:24:43.049,1:24:46.762
Yes there -- we sort of really -- I've been doing this in the Etherpad chat

1:24:46.762,1:24:48.415
so we keep it a little bit together.

1:24:48.415,1:24:53.138
That's one thing I learned from Jeff [missed words check] minute, so

1:24:53.146,1:24:54.568
[Hubard laughs]

1:24:54.568,1:24:57.156
>> Stevens: Yeah, sorry about that, Peggy, we'll try next time.

1:24:57.786,1:25:03.998
I'll probably enforce that. Anyway --[br]>> Hubbard: Somebody got their finger up.

1:25:04.905,1:25:09.750
>> Stevens: Ah ah.[br]>> Hubbard [missed words check] [laughs]

1:25:11.742,1:25:13.595
>> Stevens: No, he's got to unmute himself [check] and he's done that.

1:25:13.595,1:25:17.408
>> Hubbard: Ah. OK. Hello!

1:25:17.408,1:25:20.069
>> David [check surname]: Can I -- I can unmute myself.

1:25:20.069,1:25:21.429
>> Hubbard: Hi David.

1:25:23.398,1:25:25.513
>> Stevens: You just muted yourself again.

1:25:25.513,1:25:29.208
You did unmute yourself, now carry on.[br]>> Hubbard: that's right [check]

1:25:29.208,1:25:34.310
>> Michael: Oh. the line stays through the microphone as though it's muted.

1:25:35.509,1:25:37.809
But it changes from red to black, I guess.

1:25:37.809,1:25:40.569
>> Hubbard: Yeah, I had that problem too.

1:25:40.569,1:25:43.002
>> Michael: That's visuals, Google!

1:25:43.002,1:25:49.979
Uh, so I've been posting a little bit enthusiastically in the Google text chat,

1:25:49.979,1:25:54.165
so you guys may not have seen it, because I don't know where the Etherpad is,

1:25:54.165,1:25:56.542
but who cares, at this point?

1:25:57.388,1:25:59.411
But I just wanted to mention, Phil:

1:25:59.411,1:26:04.319
Helen Young has been a scholar connected with Stanford

1:26:04.319,1:26:07.258
who lives in Palo Alto and is the mother of my brother-in-law.

1:26:08.011,1:26:09.955
I don't know if you've interacted with her,

1:26:09.955,1:26:13.096
but she spent a fair amount of time, you know,

1:26:13.096,1:26:16.695
close to twenty years, maybe, working at Beijing,

1:26:16.695,1:26:22.045
and writing a book about the women on the Long March

1:26:22.045,1:26:25.808
who she interviewed as much older women, you know,

1:26:25.808,1:26:28.513
probably in the 90's and early 2000's,

1:26:28.513,1:26:32.794
which is called "Women of the Revolution" -- "Choosing Revolution,"

1:26:33.363,1:26:35.870
which Stanford University Press published.

1:26:35.870,1:26:38.239
But I did a quick search for her

1:26:38.239,1:26:42.311
and although she's not really on the Stanford website,

1:26:42.311,1:26:47.665
there's a link to digital recordings of her interviews,

1:26:47.665,1:26:51.460
complete with translations, and I think, transcripts.

1:26:51.460,1:26:56.709
I -- the -- I don't know if you can open the chat in Google,

1:26:56.709,1:27:00.460
but the -- the link to it I posted there[br]>> Stevens [check]: OK.

1:27:00.460,1:27:02.973
>> Michael: A number of, you know, 20 minutes ago, maybe.

1:27:02.973,1:27:08.404
But, you know, whether that's a topic of interest to any of your students,

1:27:08.404,1:27:11.848
because it's, you know, interesting historical China stuff.

1:27:11.848,1:27:16.220
But I had no idea that there was actually, you know,

1:27:16.220,1:27:18.949
sound recordings along with the transcripts.

1:27:18.949,1:27:22.466
I'm assuming -- I don't know it they're in --

1:27:22.466,1:27:25.961
I'm guessing they were in Chinese originally, the records --

1:27:25.961,1:27:27.184
>> Hubbard: That would be my guess too.

1:27:27.184,1:27:33.733
Which might make this repository actually valuable to the people learning Chinese here.

1:27:34.563,1:27:36.826
>> Michael: Right, and apparently it's not online

1:27:36.826,1:27:44.084
but somewhere, her papers on -- her research for this project is somehow connected to Stanford.

1:27:44.084,1:27:45.922
>> Hubbard: OK, Well, we have --

1:27:46.691,1:27:49.938
various libraries here have collections of papers

1:27:49.938,1:27:53.714
and it may be that they are inside one of the libraries. I'll --

1:27:53.714,1:27:55.429
So it's Y-A-N-G?

1:27:55.429,1:28:03.871
>> Michael: Yeah. Just Google it and it'll come up with, you know, a link to Amazon for the book.

1:28:03.871,1:28:07.682
But my sister and her kids and my brother-in-law,

1:28:08.266,1:28:14.009
two Summers ago, in the Summer of 2011, were on, essentially a book tour

1:28:14.009,1:28:15.555
for two weeks in China,

1:28:15.555,1:28:22.235
because the original English publication had been translated five years later into Chinese

1:28:22.235,1:28:26.978
and my nephew, who's now a college student,

1:28:26.978,1:28:31.723
two days after his high-school graduation, was, you know, flying to China

1:28:31.723,1:28:33.391
for a kind of whirlwind tour,

1:28:33.391,1:28:38.375
so it was an interesting cultural experience for my sister and her family.

1:28:41.744,1:28:44.462
>> Hubbard: OK. Shall we call it a day, Vance?

1:28:44.462,1:28:47.629
>> Stevens: Let's do and just a point of reference:

1:28:47.629,1:28:50.020
David put some links in earlier,

1:28:50.020,1:28:56.230
so if you scroll up, maybe you can find some of the links that he referred you to. But --

1:28:56.230,1:28:58.958
>> Hubbard: OK. [br]>> Stevens: -- Well, this is learning together,

1:28:58.958,1:29:01.417
this is typical learning together that actually goes on

1:29:02.201,1:29:04.131
just as long as we want it to. I love that.

1:29:04.669,1:29:09.627
And anyway, it's still December 8, 2013.

1:29:09.627,1:29:16.175
We've been talking with Dr. Phil Hubbard who is a good friend and professor at Stanford

1:29:16.805,1:29:22.417
and director of the English language program there, the ESL program.

1:29:23.140,1:29:27.344
So, well, and he's been telling us about curation

1:29:27.344,1:29:34.466
and how he applies it to a database of TED talks videos and that's really cool.

1:29:35.312,1:29:36.858
So, thank you very much,

1:29:36.858,1:29:39.581
I really appreciate your spending your time with us this morning.

1:29:39.581,1:29:44.380
And I can see that a lot of other people have appreciated it as well.

1:29:44.380,1:29:47.456
>> Hubbard: All right, well, thanks and I hope to see --

1:29:48.256,1:29:50.658
well, I'll see <i>you</i> for sure in Portland

1:29:50.658,1:29:52.219
and I hope to see some of the rest of you

1:29:52.219,1:29:54.747
either there or at some other conference sometime.

1:29:56.284,1:29:57.537
All right, bye bye.

1:29:57.537,1:30:00.201
>> Stevens: OK: my cat says Bye --

1:30:00.924,1:30:04.148
>> Hubbard: Aw, that's cute --[br]>> Stevens: -- everybody! Yeah.

1:30:04.148,1:30:06.981
[Hubbard and Stevens laugh]

1:30:06.981,1:30:08.942
>> Stevens: OK, well, thanks very much,

1:30:08.942,1:30:13.035
I'll stop broadcasting and we'll leave the hangout on for a little bit,

1:30:14.019,1:30:15.453
just in -- because I want to try and capture some of the text chat.

1:30:15.453,1:30:16.887


1:30:16.887,1:30:18.323
[missed word check] I'll see if that works.

1:30:18.323,1:30:19.869
>> Hubbard: All right, thanks.

1:30:19.869,1:30:21.069
>> Stevens: OK, bye bye.

1:30:22.553,1:30:24.460
(Hangouts On Air)